User talk:Sake neko

Hey, welcome!
Hello Sake neko, welcome to SNK Wiki! I'm Mr.Kraken, this wikia's owner. Feel free to ask anything, although it looks like you've got experience with this kind of thing. Nice article you created, I like it! See ya! Mr.Kraken 13:49, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the help
Thanks for the correct spelling of my edits. :) i'm not very good in english :-(
 * No prob. Er, whoever you are. :) Sake neko 23:59, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Well, well, nice job!
Well, since you've joined us I've been liking what you've been doing. Creating articles, adding information, you know what? How about becoming a sysop? What do you say? Mr.Kraken 20:55, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the compliemnts. Er... what does sysop mean? Sake neko 21:49, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Means admin. Want to? Mr.Kraken 23:07, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Not really. I just like adding info on the video company I like. Thanks anyways. :) Sake neko 23:08, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Samurai Shodown / Samurai Spirits information.
Hello, I am Black Shroud, you can view me as one of central figures in current Samurai Shodown online communities, and I believe I know almost all other major figures and players in those communities.. I am into this franchise for more than 4 years and to that end I gathered and translated from japanese alot of related info (including from japanese wikipedia), with thoughts of putting it together then in form of several documents. Actually I like 100 links to related resources, mostly japanese ones. As I see you are contributor of most Samurai Shodown info there, seemingly it is being taken from main wikipedia but I see some new stuff here as well (although there is big chance you were contributor to main wikipedia articles too). I have more info to contribute, however, some of it is too massive for wikipedia format I think, especially Samurai Shodown cultural/religious references (I made several researches on that), full texts of biographies/endings, special remarks about movelists evolution, reviews and so on. If "sake neko" is your main nickname, which means youre not Saiki and not Deuce and that I dont know you already, I would like yo contact you via ICQ or MSN if possible, or in case you are registered on some of Samurai Shodown-related forums, I can contact you there. My ICQ number in 337059977, my MSN is maneev (at) voliacable (dot) com See you
 * Well, this isn't wikipedia and wikia's pretty free reign for that type of info. Just add more sub-sections and explain away. I don't have any of those instant messengers -because they lag too much with my connection- so just reply back here if you wanna stay in touch. I also used to be signed in on forums awhile back, but I don't even remember my older passwords anymore so I can't do much about that. Be a member and contribute! That'd be funner. :) Sake neko 17:48, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Samurai Shodown / Samurai Spirits information.
Hello, I am Black Shroud, you can view me as one of central figures in current Samurai Shodown online communities, and I believe I know almost all other major figures and players in those communities.. I am into this franchise for more than 4 years and to that end I gathered and translated from japanese alot of related info (including from japanese wikipedia), with thoughts of putting it together then in form of several documents. Actually I like 100 links to related resources, mostly japanese ones. As I see you are contributor of most Samurai Shodown info there, seemingly it is being taken from main wikipedia but I see some new stuff here as well (although there is big chance you were contributor to main wikipedia articles too). I have more info to contribute, however, some of it is too massive for wikipedia format I think, especially Samurai Shodown cultural/religious references (I made several researches on that), full texts of biographies/endings, special remarks about movelists evolution, reviews and so on. If "sake neko" is your main nickname, which means youre not Saiki and not Deuce and that I dont know you already, I would like yo contact you via ICQ or MSN if possible, or in case you are registered on some of Samurai Shodown-related forums, I can contact you there. My ICQ number in 337059977, my MSN is maneev (at) voliacable (dot) com See you

Then I have some organisational questions
1st one is I will need to double-save information for my samsho guide and also in case vandalism happens here and this open-source stuff has its chances for vandalism or fake info. Also I would like to keep track not only for changes that are being made there (new info added in all samsho articles) but also I would like to know sources like for example if I will read something I dont know (though I doubt it) it would be interesting for me to hear from where it was taken and isnt it fake. Like if I read Saiki's plot guide on gamefaqs, its not full etc but I can trust him as the source because I know he is interested in supporting genuine info. And then, organisational questions like format of overall terms used. For example Slash and Bust modes though really used in english versions of game are actual mistranslastions of Shura and Rasetsu modes from original japanese versions. They just gone Shura - Shurash - Slash; and Rasetsu - Basetsu - Bust and that loses the sense completely, because Shura and Rasetsu refer to deities of kind and with Bust I only can hear stuff on forums like "Hey, Bust Rimururu is busty!". For another example I dont see sense in two Warriors Rage games. Not only PSX game international title was New Chapter (shinsho means new chapter),but moreso, Asura Zanmaden doesnt means Warriors Rage as well, Asura is name of a character and Zanmaden is translated as "slashin demon legend). Also I cant stand anymore EngRish than game title itself (Samurai Sho(w)down) and because of this I translate all movenames and all I can myself, to preserve original sense. Then if I will "contribute" and do game justice by editing everything as I think will be right, will it beacceptable generally ? I think such things can be talked out before with other posters.
 * Wow that was a lot of things you posted (I guess you're the same guy from before?) but I'll try my best to answer your questions and such.
 * Fake info and vandalism isn't really that big of an issue here. It's basically one of those things where if a fan knows it's wrong, they'll either correct it or raise an objection. Like I said, this isn't wikipedia where we have long and overblown arguments over source validity. The community's smaller so that's a plus (it means we're more laid back this thing).


 * When I add stuff that's from a Japanese only source, I mentioned where I found it in the summary comment box. If someone says it's wrong, I'll scan the page/link the website I found it on and show it the complainer's userpage. Then we can talk out from there whether the info's legit. If it gets to the point where you can't even stand it anymore, report the issue to the admin (in this case, Mr. Kraken). Fortunately, I haven't had to do this yet (although it's happened before at wikipedia). That's all it really should be, y'know?


 * My personal rule of thumb: don't post something up here unless you've got the official info in your hands and know that it's genuine info. A lot of the information that I've been posting lately is stuff that's mentioned in the All About Fighting Volume 2 and The King of Fighters Perfect Reader. It's pretty hard to argue with that.


 * The wikia's generally aimed to appeal to English speakers so that's why everything's er... "not like the original". Some names are just changed by SNK-USA for some reason, simple as that. That's why we list the Japanese title next to the English one so people can not really buy into the weird translations. So in other words:
 * Bust and Slash are just the English equivalent that was first introduced in SSIII. Not everyone knows the original names to everything. If you want, you can post what it's supposed to mean in parenthesis next to the term on the game's page.
 * "Warriors Rage" for the two games came from the English SS Official Anniversary Site. It lists both games using the same "Warriors Rage" name. Yes, their names are completely different in Japanese. That's why the original Japanese is posted next to the English equivalent.
 * Either way, SNK's been pretty inconsistent with their English translations since Art of Fighting and Fatal Fury. I mean "The Three Sacred Treasures" for KOF have been also called "Three God Items", "Divinity Vessels", and at least one other name that I can't remember from the games themselves. They all basically mean the same thing but you hardly see anyone else really use anything but "Three Sacred Treasures", the name first mentioned in KOF '96. Same thing too with Rimururu. She has that whole Rimnerel name floating around, but the name from the game stuck more.

I think that's it. Talk to Mr. Admin if you've got more issues though. :) Sake neko 21:22, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Samurai Shodown / Samurai Spirits
1788 early spring - 1788 early summer

Samurai Shodown II / Samurai Spirits: Haohmaru's Journey to Hell
1789 spring - 1789 summer

Samurai Shodown III / Samurai Spirits: Zankuro's Infinite Sword
1788 summer - 1788 early autumn

Samurai Shodown IV / Samurai Spirits: Amakusa's Advent
1788 autumn - 1788 early winter

Samurai Shodown 64 / Samurai Spirits 64
1789 autumn - 1790 summer

Samurai Shodown 64 Warriors Rage / Samurai Spirits: Tale of Slashing Demon Asura
1790 late autumn - 1790 winter

Samurai Shodown Warriors Rage PSX / Samurai Spirits: New Chapter of Blade
1811

Samurai Shodown V / Samurai Spirits Zero
1786 January - 1786 late summer

Samurai Shodown VI / Samurai Spirits: Tale of World's Greatest Swordsmen
Alternative continuity after Samurai Shodown V

Samurai Shodown Edge of Destiny / Samurai Spirits: Flash
Unknown (but happens certainly after Samurai Shodown 64).

I think its the best to eliminate confusion of game titles and timeline (a official US title, then translated japanese title, then when game takes place in storyline). In Preface you write everything that happened with character BEFORE events of first game he appeared in. I used it in Rimururu article so far but I think it will be the best for using everywhere so I thought about informing you. About place od Edge of Destiny in timeline I judged from Haohmaru's age because he has a date of birth and his age in Edge of Destiny was leaked by one of game developers when he was asked about when game takes place., so I counted and it seems to be between SS64 and Warriors Rage/Asura Zanmaden games, although I doubt it counts as same storyline and not something alternative.

Also please look on my userpage, I made some points there and I want some constructive dialog.Black Shroud 14:52, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Elimination of confusion with "Shin Gaoh" article
link http://snk.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Shin_Gaoh Please read this Black Shroud 11:02, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah I've read it. Did you see my reply? Sake neko 22:29, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Sake neko...
Hey man, is there a way I can talk to you in private? -- Mr.Kraken 23:01, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I guess. Anything wrong? Sake neko 23:02, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I think so. -- Mr.Kraken 23:04, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
 * All I've got is email though. That okay? Sake neko 23:08, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, no problem. -- Mr.Kraken 23:10, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
 * saki_neko@peoplepc.com ; Yeah, it's a typo but that'll get to me eventually. Sake neko 23:14, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
 * E-mail sent. -- Mr.Kraken 23:30, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Reply sent. Sake neko 00:06, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks, neko. -- Mr.Kraken 01:58, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

I'll team up with you.
(-)He pats you on the back(-) Hey, buddy! Since you put down information, I'll put up the pictures. So, how about it? Teaming up? Sake neko & M-A-S-T-A K-illa, huh?--User:M-A-S-T-A K-illa 17:21, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
 * That's great. Except right now, there are a lot of articles that need more information at the moment. I'm on hold for adding new articles now since there are now a lot of stub articles that need fixing. Maybe you can help out too? :) Sake neko 18:33, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Yeah. Anytime you need me, you know where I'll be! --M-A-S-T-A K-illa 20:36, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Just a test.
Hey, neko, Tell me what you think of this picture and what she is doing in this picture. --M A S T A K illa 16:29, 16 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Jumping up and waving a pom-pom in the air like a cheerleader. She might be scoring a point in the hoop for all I know. Sake neko 16:33, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

More of it: Jumping up to show that her breasts can bounce, but good! Now tell me what you think of this, and what she is doing. --M-A-S-T-A K-illa 16:42, 16 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Probably dribbling a ball or dodging an attack. Something with motion. Sake neko 16:54, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Good! Now tell me what you think of this and what she's doing. --M-A-S-T-A K-illa 16:58, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Not much. Just doing what you see really. I'm guessing this is a gesture she does while she's talking to someone. Sake neko 17:37, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Good! Now tell me what you think of those.





First: Tell me what you think Mary is doing in this image.
 * Touching her chest (about where her heart is). Looking feminine and swauve as usual. Sake neko 17:51, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Then: Tell me what you think Alice is doing in this image.--M-A-S-T-A K-illa 17:49, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Judging from the screenshots of the game, Alice's looking worried for Terry. Sake neko 17:51, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Look!
Hey. Tell me what you think of those pictures I uploaded, and what is Blue Mary doing in those images.

M-A-S-T-A K-illa 18:35, 16 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Looks like she's just being Mary. I don't know what else to say other than she's in bold and sexy poses. =shrugs= Sake neko 18:38, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Hey, there! I'm gonna ask you one more time, ok?
Hello, miss (you are a girl, right? :x) Sake neko! How are you doing? Well, well, I'm extremely sorry if I'm just being a pain in the... you know where; but, I'm just seeking what is best for the wikia. So, I'm gonna ask you one more time: Wanna become an admin? -- Mr.Kraken 23:02, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Hrm, but then I couldn't say "Mr. Admin" anymore. Sake neko 23:48, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Okay... that would be a terrible loss XD! - But, come on, think about it! -- Mr.Kraken 00:12, 29 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I'll think about it. Sake neko 00:13, 29 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Although I appreciate the offer, I think I'd eventually distort my admin powers somewhere down the road. Like, I'd be too quick to kick people out or erase double images too soon. I'm going to decline, but I'll still contribute. :) Sake neko 07:10, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Samurai Shodown series timeline/ Analog to 20th/21st century?
OK its sounds very obscure, but should that be noted that the timeline of SamSho somehow paralles our 20th/21st History?

The Story of the SamSho Games from I trough V and also SamSho 64-1 begins in 1786-9, in a cold war like era. Japan is in a chaotic state of war, they are many demon creatures in the Games and some characters like Neinhalt Sieger and Andrew have Firearms that are about their time. But then, in 1791, in edge of Destiny, these Fantasy-like features all disappears in favor of a 1990's like World (instead of a large scale war in Japan, there are Terrorist attacks around the world) and economic themes (Nakuru and Rimuru being abadoned by Nature) and the Weapons in the game are normal for their Time (except Suzuhimes Dragon Slayer ^^)

And finally, in 1811 ([]), possibly analogous to 2011, the Story resolves around the end of the Samurai Era (can be compared with the alleged end of the World in 2012, because of the Mayan Calender, google it ^^) and a revolution war in Japan. Also, most of the characters weapons are more "futuristic" in appearance, like Sayas blades and Mikotos Sword thing.

From Mi$ter []. and sorry for my bad englisch :-(
 * I understand what you're saying but I don't think it's completely right to say that the Samurai Shodown story is a parallel of our history. It's a non-fictional fantasy at best (very lenient when I say that) and the series only borrows aspects of history to better establish their settings for people who kinda care about that sort of thing. I'd say that the series' historical references are more like historical portrayals in fiction more than anything else. Besides, that's like saying the same for The Last Blade series because they have the Shinseigumi and such. Sake neko 23:47, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the answers, Sake Neko. =)

From Mi$ter http://snk.wikia.com/wiki/User:1950drnash1987.

Mark of the Wolves online novel?
Hello, Sake neko. I'm reading some things about this Mark of the Wolves online novel you've been putting on some pages... and I'm really curious about it. Is there anywhere I can read it? - Mr.Kraken 12:18, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
 * When I say online novel, I mean it's the online novel to the much rumored Mark of Wolves sequel that SNK reportedly scraped. When Garou was released a third time, Playmore posted the unfinished story in novel format since they wanted to explain some of the cliffhangers left in the game. It's down from the site but BoHyou was crazy enough to keep a copy of all of it (and then some) on their site. http://bohyou.vis.ne.jp/neogeo/ss/index.htm


 * Since it's more like an unfinished concept from the developers rather than an official story for a game, I put the tag "online novel" on there. I guess this could be erased when the actual sequel to Garou comes out. Sake neko 17:39, 26 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Hey, thanks, but... I can't really read japanese... Do you know any good online translator? The only one I know is World Lingo and it's full of adwares... -- Mr.Kraken 23:26, 26 September 2008 (UTC)


 * From my experiences with online translators, there are no really good ones. They always have a lot of broken sentences and can't really translate slang very well. There's babelfish and excite but they're picky about which Japanese font they'll translate. The best one I found for this particular page was yahoo japan. It's still pretty flighty but at least it has a better flow than others. |for=0|sp=-5|fs=100%|fb=0|fi=0|fc=FF0000|db=T|eid=CR-EJ,k7a3e3893016567feb370ebbc60e2c9a6,t20080927210126, By the way, this first page is just Rock's ending from Garou. Keeping that in mind you can pretty much compare how off it is. Sake neko 00:15, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

Hey!
Hello neko! It's been a while, huh?--M-A-S-T-A K-illa 22:25, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
 * It has hasn't it? Where've you been? :) Sake neko 01:55, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

I had to take a break for a while--M-A-S-T-A K-illa 23:59, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

A Samurai Shodown Warriors Rage (PSX) gimmick
Hanzo in Warriors Rage is called Nidaime Hanzo (Hanzo the Second). Its not the same man that Hanzo from other games. As I saw on the net it should be Shinzo, son of original Hanzo, that was host for the Amakusa in previous games. Original Hanzo then is retired it seems. Oboro is mentioned to be defeated by Original Hanzo in a duel before he was cast off from the Iga Ninja clan. Jigen Taishi is something like a ringleader of rebellion, and Oboro servers him. Nidaime Hanzo (Shinzo) seeks Jigen Taishi, and translation of US version of game makes it like Jigen is father of Hanzo. Japanese version makes Hanzo refer to Jigen as "oyaji" or "oyaji-dono" which isnt necessary a "father". In Nidaime Hanzo's ending in the end a man appears (ninja standing on roof) who praises Hanzo's ninja skills, and calls him his son. There a thoughts its too Jigen (escaped death) and therefore he is Shinzo's father. Other thoughts are Jigen was killed and person appearing in ending is Original Hanzo.

So, my questions are: Who is Jigen Taishi to Iga Ninja clan ?; How Jigen and Nidaime Hanzo are related ?; Is Jigen Taishi = Original Hanzo ?; Black Shroud 09:54, 13 October 2008 (UTC)


 * The short answer is that Jigen isn't related to Hanzo at all.


 * I re-read the Japanese script for Hanzo's ending over again and I didn't see Shinzo talking to Jigen at all. He only talks to Oboro about him and he's hardly that respectful about it. Shinzo just said that his father must've known about Oboro's plans as well. It's best to think of Jigen as the new Ambrosia for the game since he's (it's?) an earthly Buddhist entity that would be hazardous to life as we know it. Oboro was going to summon him as the eternal payback to Hanzo (any one of them really). You can see the pedestal Oboro created for Jigen in the Metamorphosis movie. Hanzo (the original) is referred to as a mysterious man (or Iga man) at the end so I don't think he's Jigen at all.


 * And yeah, Hanzo in Warriors' Rage is Shinzo. The creators wanted to point this fact out by making him slightly different in various ways. He's not officially referred to as "the Second Hanzo" in-game (unless there's an official nickname I'm not thinking about) since Shinzo taking up his father's mantle was meant to be a surprise of sorts for people who are picking up the game for the first time. The Second Hanzo name gained a widespread acceptance by fans once more people played it.


 * Additionally, younger Shinzo called his father "Chichue" -or however you want to romanji it- which is the traditional and somewhat submissive term for father. I hardly think he wants to seem weak when he's the new Hanzo (and he grew up since then) so he switched to the more masculine and just as affectionate "oyaji" when he's talking about his father to others. He refers to Oboro as "omae" when he speaks to him and "ayatsume" when he's not around him; both terms are derogatory as it gets for the archaic and formal Shinzo. Keeping that in mind, there's no way he'd casually slip and call Oboro or Jigen "old man" in a nice way (the alternate meaning to "oyaji"). The mysterious man also says "musuko yo", a cue in to Japanese fans that it's the old Hanzo since he pretty much said that throughout the series. Hope that answers your questions. Sake neko 10:15, 13 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Hmm, I think people wouldnt think of Warriors' Rage Hanzo as of usual one because of 1)Age, original Hanzo was around 40 in main games I guess, and add +20 years to that; 2)No scar on left eye; 3)Artwork depicts maskless Hanzo young, although that one may have been released later. Next, Jigen isnt an entity, he is pretty much human. Basically he was a important and known person in Bakufu Shogunate, maybe a contributor of sorts, but later he switched to planning rebellion. References to him as "earthly Buddha" refer to his status as enlightened (buddhist) master. Purpose of rebellion is to create a "strong" nation (where weak die strong survive) in the name of Bushin (god of martial arts as I understood), so Bushin is more of an entity here. Jigen was depicted in official Warriors Rage manga (Which scans I own). At first he was shown when Hanzo talked about him I think, he looked like wandering monk (looked closer to taoist/onmyouji) wearing a different hat in different pictures (a cone-like hat, and a normal rice hat). Then he was shown on the pedestal I think around time heroes stormed the castle to fight Oboro. Final time his "smiling corpse" was shown (mentioned in Hanzo's ending). Jigen looked as he fell to the ground and hat dropped from him, revealing face of very old man (older than Oboro), bald on forehead, with dry sunken skin because of which face looked kinda like a skull, and with mustaches. Basically scheme of command can be described like Bushin => Jigen => Oboro => Tohma & Mikoto => Amazons and other rebel forces.


 * I would like to take a look on scripts for endings and ingame texts (original japanese versions) for Samurai Shodown games, but now I dont have access to scripts of all games or to complete versions. Here is what I have: http://tenchusatu.jpn.org/samudata.html - SS3/SS3 portable, SS4, SS64, Warriors Rage 64, Warriors Rage (but some things can be missed here and there, like one game doesnt have intros, other doesnt have all character data, plus missed walkthrough dialogues); http://www.geocities.co.jp/CollegeLife-Library/9133/data/  - SS5 ingame text; http://www.geocities.jp/abxy_lr/sst/message/ - SS6 ingame text.


 * Can you name other, maybe more detailed sources except those? Thanks in advance Black Shroud 18:44, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Get this book: http://www.amazon.co.jp/exec/obidos/ASIN/488554677X/bohyou-22/ref=nosim
 * It's what I use to double check the Japanese story scenarios, in-game events, and bio info for Samurai Shodown, Art of Fighting, Fatal Fury, and others. It's good up to 2000 so it has some limitations. For in-game dialogue, it's easier to download the original soundtrack than find text citations for. Those other links you used are fine for the newer games. This is also a comprehensive site for bio info as it includes Sen, the RPG, V and VI, and other miscellaneous info. It also bullet points each definition's relevance to the series: http://www.latel.co.uk/cgi_bin/keburi/dict/dr.cgi?nonframe=0&index=0C&action=htmlize


 * You're right about Jigen being a former member of the shogunate and him being a "god" of sorts. Oboro uses the gimmick of Jigen's "godly" status as if he were summoning something, thus gaining loyal members to the rebellion and junk. When I said it's best to think of him as the new Ambrosia, I also didn't mean for it to be literal; it's just that's what he used for in the main scheme of things. Jigen himself is never shown in the game since he's being represented though Oboro. I've never seen a screenshot or seen him talk anywhere except through the old man who's "summoning" him. And yes, the corpse they're referring to in Hanzo's ending is Jigen himself. I know of the Warriors Rage comic but that -like other adaptions- takes liberties on characters and events. Saying that this comic is any different is like saying Bon Bon Garou is cannon for Fatal Fury. Since you have scans, you can make the page for the comic if you want. Sake neko 19:45, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

More on Warriors Rage PSX
I want to re-check some things I may know wrong because of awful SNK translations and possible lack of info elsewhere. So:

1)Japanese use something like "Serpent Yuga" term to Yuga found in Warriors Rage PSX. And in Yuda walkthrough there are bits of text like "Time's Serpent". I also readed that may be the symbol of eternity like uroboros, using a snake. But overall Im not sure what this means. I only know Snake/Serpent word doesnt appears in previous 3D SS games, only some Yuga symbols contain snakes (such as one tattooed on Shiki or one seen on Hanmen no Asura clothes). And one more point regarding that is Yuga and apparently Asuras have eye pupils in form similar to snake ones;
 * "Time's Serpent" is what's Yuda says in the Japanese text. Snakes in Japan generally represent longevity and sexual desires so it's not a bad symbolic item for these characters. As for why it's there, I thought it was just poetic justice on Yuda's part since Yuga would've probably repeated its plans through Mikoto's body. Sake neko 19:30, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

2)"Seven Kings" are mentioned in Yuda's walkthrough in Warriors Rage PSX. As far as I see ending contains picture of apparently 7 persons (because each one holds one of Asura's 7 weapons), and all those persons are one-winged (as Yuda). Their line in US version is "Seven Kings: We are the 7 kings! From the edge of eternity. We've awaited the rebirth of the Universal King." Then in very last picture Yuda grows 7 black + 1 white = 8 wings (I think as symbol that he reunited with his weapons ?). As for those persons, apparently "7 kings" refers to them but I dont get who are they (maybe spirits/fallen angels contained in weapons, like Lucifier, Mammon, etc see weapon names). Also "Universal king" probably is for Yuda/Asura but I guess there could be mistranslations;
 * The lines are very accurate to the Japanese version (just loses the original subtext of servitude). As for who they are, they are they are human representations of the seven weapons that Asura uses. This was covered back in SS642 when he was introduced. They have names but I can't remember them off the top of my head because they were the weird word plays of angels and such. Basically look at Asura's move list and those are their names.


 * On another note, I don't see why you keep picking on the English translations in this game since it's actually the best translations for the series. Sure, there are a lot of flaky ones there and Minto's lines were ruined (since she's not moe-moe), but it's actually the most accurate and lacks a good amount of Engrish found in other entries in the series. You should complain more about the localization since they were dealing with a somewhat heavy story about Japanese culture and didn't make a lot of efforts to really explain that. Sake neko 19:30, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

3)Tohma's origins. Tohma looks rather similar to Mikoto and Yuda ingame (pale white skin and red eyes) which are features of someone with Demon/Makai blood or influence. Shiki had 1 red eye because of posession, and then 2 red eyes in Rasetsu/Bust mode because of stronger posession. Asura/Yuda had red eyes because of his Makai/Demon World origin. Mikoto because of her heritage. But Tohma's origins were never explained (he was an orphan), while Seishiro Kyukou (double sworded version) walkthrough shows his talk with Yuga (through Mikoto), where Yuga reveals Tohma is somehow part of her plans, so she wants to give 2 swords to Tohma (she also refers to Tohma as "her master" which is weird, possible mistranslation). Which makes me think Tohma could be partially of demon heritage or just posessed/controlled by Yuga as part of her grand plan (same as Asura/Yuda was brainwashed and called by her to kill Mikoto's soul giving control of body to Yuga);
 * Tohma's origins are never really made clear but it's been stated that he's an orphan from a foreign country like Saya. Of course, they don't specify but all hints (in Japanese or English) never implicate any Makai origins of the sort. It's generally accepted that Tohma's albino due to his bleached looking appearance. His red eyes and surreal appearance (at least in Japan) is what originally attracted Mikoto to him as she thought she found a kindred spirit. In the script, she seems to love him for his kindness and will power in the end though. By the way, when she was saying "master" to two-sworded Seishiro, she was being respectful to him (Seishiro-sama), which is common etiquette when talking to a samurai of any class. She also respects him since she probably heard of him through Tohma, the one she respects even more (urgh, manners). Sake neko 19:30, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

Can you enlighten me on those topics ? :) Thanks in advance Black Shroud 10:11, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
 * It really does help to get the book though. It's a pretty hefty encyclopedia for a lot of the things you're asking. Sake neko 19:30, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

About book: Im afraid that book is incompatible with me, because I work with text trough several translators and dictionaries but I cant operate printed text / text on image, unless I get good japanese text-recognizing program which I lack as well. It would be best if I could find text from the book somewhere online.

About my previous questions: I would like to elaborate that I expected possible link of terms to something mythological/found in japan's culture since SNK likes to make such moves, but if thats not the case, thats fine too.

I recently came up with several more things: 1)since Japan had both shogun (military leader) and emperor ("formal" leader that bestowed the right to rule the country on shogun), the shogun was one who was slain in SS5 ? (so Yoshitora took his place). Because in some english translations its called emperor, or even "better", slain person can be called "king" and Yoshitora "prince".

2)Is there a summary to SS3 and Warriors Rage dramas? Never saw one.

3)Does SS64 drama CD exists ? Because several my contacts keep on bugging me to get one because they think it exists.

P.S. I just readed "It's later mentioned in Warriors Rage that he was the true Asura, as he had the emotions and thoughts of the original. He is supreme ruler of the Underworld and has seven kings in his service." bit in Shadow Asura profile. Is it mentioned ingame, and how exactly does it relate to Shadow Asura because original Asura used 7 weapons. By Underworld I get Makai (Demon World), so supposedly Asura could rule that place after Yuga was defeated. (The one possible way I can think is if we place Asura as Devil himself, and 7 kings as fallen angels and his servants, and Makai as Hell.) By the way "Asura" is a type of being in buddhism, a race if you want so what can mean "true Asura" ? I also saw in other places info like 7 kings is a squad of sorts, of which Asura and Shiki were members; and it confuses me because I cant link it with info I already know about characters. Black Shroud 19:50, 15 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Ah, that's too bad about the book. Sounds like something you should read too. :(


 * 1. Yoshitora's story is all about the real Tokugawa shogunate in Japanese history. Emperors during those times had little power and were basically puppets-leaders in politics valued only for their wealth and influence over common people (they kinda sat back and watched). Shogun were the men doing the most active decisions back then and fought to protect them and the land (the guys with real power). The structure of power went through a weird transition when there were no more big wars and the society changed with Western culture (that's what Last Blade and the Shinsengumi are all about).


 * "Emperor" in English was SNK's awkward way of trying to explain how important Yoshitora is since shogun is a bit outlandish and pretty foreign for most people outside of Japan (or for those who don't understand Japanese history). On a side note, Amakusa says a lot of stuff about the shogunate ("Tokugawa, you filth!" hur, hur) in English during the first game so there you go.


 * 2. There aren't ones yet but I could make them since I've got files of them. I'm just tired of transcribing drama CDs at the moment. They're both prequel stories to the games if you wanted to know.


 * 3. It does exist but it's pretty rare. I haven't seen it or heard it either but it's floating around somewhere. If you hear the SS Best Collection, you can hear snippets of it in their drama/montage tracks. That's probably the reason why you have people hassling you to get it. It's pretty hard to find like the LB2 drama CD so good luck finding it.


 * PS - It's greatly implied that Asura is the king of all kings in Hell. Since SNK doesn't seem to have plans to continue that story, I think it's safe to leave it at that. The whole "true" and "shade" is basically just what it implicates. Both Asura are the same being; it's just that one form was more true to Asura's original form than the other. As for the reference to the modern day god, it's probably best to say a sentence about it and let the links explain. Talking religion's not really my thing.


 * As for sources on the symbolism and Japan's culture, there's lots of them. Wikipedia's a good start but really the best way to find out about it is through books. Sake neko 20:30, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

About Galford
Since I saw many different versions on the net, I will just list all those "facts" so you can say what is true and what false (or possibly retcons if there were some) -Galford's style is Koga Ninjutsu -Galford's style is Koga Ninjutsu -Galford was trained under Ayame, a ninja from Koga clan -Galford was trained under Kaede, a wife of Hanzo Hattori from Iga clan -Kaede is from Koga clan -Galford and Earthquake trained under same master -Galford's scarf is a present from Ayame -Ayame and mentor of Hanzo fell in love, and some time after they left their clans

aside of that, sentence from Yuda's ending "We are 7 kings. From the edge of eternity, we awaited the return of universal king", could you possibly type it in japanese ? Im interested mainly in how "7 kings" and "universal king" look on japanese, and does "from edge of eternity" mean "for very long time", or there can be something else. I just remembered Asura Zanmaden used "ou" kanji for mode changes of Enja and Suija, and it was commonly translated as "emperor", not as "king". Black Shroud 21:07, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Ayame and facts concerning her, Earthquake, and Galford: true. Kaede teaching Galford and being a Koga ninja before marrying Hanzo: false. Since you're very interested in this subject about Asura -and speculation about Yuda's ending- I'll link you to a Japanese fan who shares your very same predicament. They pretty much quote the passage and add their own take on what these words could mean, very much like you do. I figured you'd appreciate it. I personally think that SNK's going to kinda leave their story like that as the new development team for the series seems more interested in the archaic -rather than supernatural- elements of the series. Sake neko 09:59, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

RE:KOF MI2 Cosplay
Thanks for noticing. I've got a magazine with a checklist on all characters' costumes, and from there I edited that on.

As for Mignon, I don't really know. Though her Normal H seems to have some inspiration from another character.

And about K', hmm... Yeah, it bears some resemblance. I don't say it's exactly alike, but that costume does resemble that old Predator for what I know.

Also, I think Falcoon should've given Iori's Alternate outfit a Yashiro palette... Heheh ^^'DiamondStarHalo 13:49, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I was mostly doing those from memory so I thought I missed a couple. Thanks for being more accurate on that. And I agree on Iori needing a another palette of Yashiro. His alternate was practically made for it. ^^; Do you think Alba has any more though? His alternate colors especially... Sake neko 16:10, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

I was just trying to find that, but couldn't grasp anything else (though his Normal H color looks like a samurai suit of armor - I thought of Akechi Samanosuke from Onimusha, but the colors are different. Alba's got more bluish and golden colors).

And, one unrelated thing:

Trouble with Yuri image
It's about that Yuri swimsuit image you uploaded (Image:Yuri majhong.jpg). It appears alright, but in the Yuri article, its thumbnail shows an image of Leona instead (albeit too cute for Leona, but the hair's there, so meh ^^'). Is it something with the image? Can it be fixed?DiamondStarHalo 18:40, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I dunno about that either. I accidentally uploaded the Leona one and replaced it with the right image. But then well, that's how it ended up. Maybe try uploading it again? Sake neko 22:39, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Hi, there
Hey, long time no see. I'm feeling a little (ok... a lot) guilty about my behaviour. You've been handling the wiki almost (?) on your own, and I'm just over there in the corner watching the whole thing. Sorry about that, I really am. I'm going to help this wiki again so, are you in need of something?

Oh... and by the way, have you though of what I offered you? Becoming an admin, how about that?? - Mr.Kraken 11:13, 30 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't worry that much about it since I'm going to be royally distracted with this game for awhile. I'm not really interested in being an admin; I just like adding -super- geeky things about SNK. I was kinda thinking of doing the same for Capcom's wikia but maybe later when I've run out of things to write about here. That's going to be for awhile though.


 * If I were to guess on what to add to the wikia, maybe we should include some more fan terms, original fan games, or something along those lines in their own section. Like Riccochet2005 was saying awhile back. Maybe list the Mugen sprite mods on one page and link them to the original character with a "See also" link. I know Kula's got at least five or six of them by now. I personally am more interested in Goeniko or Heidern!Athena but there's a lot more that other people will know about. Maybe make a poll before you decide though? I'm not sure if a lot of visitors would be interested in knowing what other fans do/think.


 * More manhua for any series would be nice since I've pretty much done the two I've seen Japanese summaries for. I'd like to do KOF Zillion -since I remember it being unintentionally hilarious- but I've only got the first two issues translated and I can't read the raws. A movelist and quotes page for every character -in every game they've been- would be quite the task but that's another thing I've thought of adding. I got intimidated when I thought of doing Terry, Ryo, or Kyo and that kinda stumped my efforts on that. ^^; Oh hey, when that KOF movie cast list is out, that can be added too. I don't really keep up with the news on that as quickly as other people.


 * On another note, do you know how to pronounce Nameless' codename? It's written as that double K thing but I couldn't quite understand what it's supposed to be pronounced as. Japlimu? Shipline? Something in another language entirely? Maybe Cyberfanatix knows. Sake neko 18:07, 30 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Well, about his codename... I checked wikipedia about the symbol and they say its obsolete. It was "Proposed for velar click, withdrawn 1970"... But I think it should be pronounced as a Q... maybe. Maybe it's something like "Kill-Kay-Dash"... sounds cool!


 * About the Mugen sprite mods... I think it's cool and all, but it really isn't officialy SNK... you know what I mean? Although it could be created in one page... I think that Goeniko could have her own page, since she's very famous in Japan. And about fan works, I think we could create another page about ... huh... hentai. I'm not really a fan, but a friend of mine gave me the idea. Do you think it's appropriate?


 * About the manhua, I can't really add anything on that one, cause I can't understand chinese... sorry. And about the KOF movie... damn, I haven't heard a word about it in ages... what happened to it? -- Mr.Kraken 19:51, 30 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Hey that does sound cool! Probably not what it is though.


 * Hentai? Well, there's the Yuri and Friends series but there's not much to them really -well, other than porn. Besides, if we add hentai we'd have to add the other ero-like genres eventually like yaoi, loli, ect. The only ones I can think of being somewhat appropriate to add are the Aoi Nanase shojou-ai themed ones (CharlottexNako, NakoxNako) and even then that's barely. The Queen's Gate images for Mai and Iroha were only added because those came from an established company, y'know? Hrm, maybe it's better if we abandon that idea since that's too off kilter and too hard to cover in one page.


 * Goeniko is pretty popular. How should we go about adding her though? It's not like she an official character really.


 * I haven't heard about the movie either and it kinda bothers me. Even the Tekken movie's got some leaks floating around and KOF's got zilch. Did it get canned or what?Sake neko 20:13, 30 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Gee... I really don't see a future for the movie... it bothers me too. About Goeniko, I think she kinda deserves an article, but do you know any "official" backstory about her? Is she Goenitz's daughter like I heard? If you have enough information about her, go ahead...


 * Yeah, let's forget about hentai and everything related to the subject. Kinda merging two subjects you've mentioned before... I heard someone did a Mugen game based on KOF Zillion... is it anything worth puting on the wiki? -- Mr.Kraken 20:27, 30 October 2008 (UTC)


 * She doesn't really have a standard backstory from what I've seen. Fans just make up a story for her. There's one where she admits to being Goenitz (a tranny), a daughter like you've said, and an elaborate shadow/clone theory like Shadow Andy. Take your pick I guess.


 * I think there's more than one out there titled KOF Zillion so I wouldn't say so. I know there's a 3D online game using 2000 designs and Kim Jae Hoon for some reason but I don't know it's title. There was also that fan (?) movie of polygon Kyo fighting Iori that was titled Zillion. Not sure if they're related or not. Been awhile since I've seen either of those. Sake neko 20:39, 30 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Well... in spite of that "tranny" thing... I think she could have her own article. Oh... by the way, I was about to create an article about Marie Heinlein and found this page: Gaia Online. Do you know if that 'Personal Information' table is canon?


 * Oh, yeah... another thing that I was wondering about... are you a boy or a girl? -- Mr.Kraken 20:48, 30 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Hey that profile's cute looking. It's not 100% correct though as she doesn't have any bio stats. Marie apparently lived in Southtown her entire life. The part about her dying from illness is right though.


 * A girl. Didn't Kyosei tell you? ^^;Sake neko 20:55, 30 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Huh... no he didn`t. English isn`t my native language, so I can`t really tell what words should I say and what words should I not say when talking to a lady. So, if I said anything that offended you, I am deeply sorry. :) -- Mr.Kraken 21:08, 30 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I wouldn't worry about it. Sake neko 22:30, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

About Nameless...
Figh-A-Base has a page on him. They say his name is pronounced Zhe Dash. Well, and the profile isn't matching with the one in the wiki... What should we do? -- Mr.Kraken 19:51, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

Gee... sorry, forgot to post the link: Fight-A-Base. -- Mr.Kraken 21:14, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
 * You can replace the info on wiki since the one on the links more accurate. I'd say keep the sports on though since that's basically what it's saying. :) Sake neko 01:37, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

SNK Wiki deserves an award
This Wiki is one of the best on the web, and it's all thanks to you! Thank you so much for all your contributions. You know so much about SNK!
 * Thanks for the complements but I shouldn't really get all the credit. Right now, I'm translating the information and merchandise from the really dedicated Japanese fans. Some of those guys seem to have everything! Sake neko 21:38, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

Move Lists? Why not?
Hey, how about creating move list articles? I created one for Elisabeth; tell me what you think. Move List:Elisabeth Blanctorche -- Mr.Kraken 22:14, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I like it! Great job! I think it'll take awhile but let's try and do everyone we can! :D Sake neko 00:22, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Hello
Did I frustrate you? It might just be a misinterpretation, but I'm sorry! Speedwagon 20:30, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Urgh, no? Quite the opposite...? I'm more happy that someone else is editing...? I'm sorry you misinterpreted it! A million apoloies! D: Sake neko 20:37, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Ahhh, sorry! I got Metal Slug 1 and 7, so I can supply some facts for you on it. Speedwagon 20:41, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Sweet deal. I only own Metal Slug 7 at the moment and I'm not that far in Combat School yet. I keep messing up the simple no miss ones. But I've got a Lieutenant rank so that's cool. :) Sake neko 20:49, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Passing the information along :)
Hello.

All wikis will be "read-only" from 9am - 10am UTC Tuesday morning (that's 1:00am Pacific, 4:00am Eastern). During this time, editing will be disabled while we do some routine maintenance, but you will still be able to access the site.

This message is only being sent to wiki admins, so please pass this information along to other members of your communities as needed.

Thanks, Wikia Community Team

Mr.Kraken 00:49, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Something new I uploaded.
Hey, neko. Check out something I uploaded. See? That's Yuri's KOF 2001 winpose. And if you look closely.... Her bottomlip is kinda big, don't you think?--M-A-S-T-A K-illa 00:34, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Hahaha, yeah. I remember that one. Man, 2001 was such a weird year for those winposes. Sake neko 06:42, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Question
Hi neko. Im tintor2 from wikipedia, and I wanted to ask you somethings. Do you have the source for the Garou popularity polls? A little request: could you add some conception to character pages from wikipedia? Terry Bogard's creation seems to be unknown, but I saw some things here about the Japan team and K which I dont know source? By the way, is it true that KOF XII doesnt have story? I heard that the story would be the last thing developers were making for the game, but some people say that it wont have plot. Last question, does Kula fight against K in the KOF canon? It seems pretty obvious that they fight considering they are opposites version but I havent found source in games. Regards.201.253.143.24 01:09, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Garou polls: http://www.personal.triticom.com/~erm/www.neogeo.co.jp/garou/sss/vote_chara/vote_c.htm I only listed up to the top five though.


 * Japan Team and a little about K': King of Fighters Perfect reader. I forgot the page but it's the same interview where they said the series was going to be a side scroller. I just didn't want to list it on wikipedia because it wold probably be criticized as a redundant source. The other K' note (about his namesake) was from the Japanese wikipedia. They're better at spotting those anime references than I am. I'm inclined to believe the one about K's name since the old SNK staff were fans of mecha and sentai things. Here's the Japanese wikipedia about the other K'; his name's the same and their backstories are rather similar to one another.


 * The producer himself said that KOF XII has no story. As far as I know, that rumor about the story development being the last issue on their agenda is false. There's also a scan of an Arciadia issue floating around saying the same thing. The original interview with Fighters front line is here: http://ffl.sakura.ne.jp/topic/press/kof12.htm If you need a translated English version, this is a good place to look: http://www.cyberfanatix.com/index.php?m=single&id=1417


 * As far as I know, the only time K' really fights Kula is in the 2000 drama CD. I haven't found anything else that says that they really clash fists during the games. Kula is supposed to be a behind-the-scenes type operative so it's a bit dubious what her exact activities were in 2001. In any case, she was apparently on board NESTS satellite at the end of 2001 since the Hero team's ending was pretty much the canon accepted climax in 2001. The NESTS recap vid kinda depicts her being held captive there for some reason. In fact, the vid kinda implies that Kula never entered the tournaments. I don't have the 2001 mook or anything so I can't really answer this properly. I can give a link to the vid I'm talking about though: NESTS saga - part 1, NESTS saga - part 2 Sake neko 02:15, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. Do you refer to the King of Fighters Perfect reader is the one that explains the Cool --- K and Getter Robo -Japan team? By the way here there are some Manwhua, but all in Japanese. In the KOF XII website when you click in Kyo, Terry, Benimaru and Ash there is a new menu. Any idea what is it? Additionally, do you know a website which has the KOF XI backstories in English?201.253.143.133 15:06, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Hey thanks for the mahua linkage but it doesn't seem to work for me. As for the sources, I don't know where someone got the Cool/K' idea from but it seems rather likely that it's legit. The director guy went back to SNK for KOF '99 and the designer for those characters did as well. It's one of those type of things that's interesting to know from the old wikipedia articles. The Getta Robo bit came from the perfect reader though. The pop-ups in the character bios from the KOF XII website are mini-stories that kinda seem like side stories. Ash, Duo, and Shen hang out; Kyo appreciates his 2001 teammates; Benimaru chats with Chizuru on his thoughts about Kyo; Terry goes to PaoPao Cafe 2 and has a small bout with Duck. They don't feel like a backstory since they don't say much about the KOF XII tournament really (barely does in Ash and Kyo's story) so that's all I can really say about them. I don't think anyone's translated them into English yet though. Sake neko 17:40, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Try also looking in mangafox.com since there are some chapters in English (search there for the letter K). I mean the XI (not XII) backstories, were they translated in some site?201.252.12.10 18:07, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I read that wrong. Here's links to a good English translation of the KOF XI backstories: http://www.cyberfanatix.com/page.php?id=329, http://www.cyberfanatix.com/page.php?id=654 Sake neko 18:12, 20 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Nice. Thanks.201.252.12.10 18:16, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Here there a few mawhua to read online. It also includes the kof kyo manga.201.252.12.10 18:18, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I own the Kof Kyo volumes (all three of them) but thanks for the link again. I appreciate it. :) Sake neko 18:23, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

There are also some manwhua there.201.252.12.10 18:30, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I know. That's I thanked you for. I'm currently breezing through the 2001 with K9999's Akira-like scene. :) Sake neko 18:47, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

I forgot, does the perfect reader guide also mention about Iori's girlfriend. Its mentioned on his article.201.252.51.103 20:38, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Older iterations of Iori's profiles can tell you that he had (?) a girlfriend. Perfect Reader just says that it's curious how he doesn't have one anymore. Sake neko 20:41, 20 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Is there some info about K in perfect reader?201.252.51.103 20:49, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
 * He was conceived to be the dark hero. He was made to contrast Kyo who's always about "justice" and "courage"; basically that's what dark hero means. He follows the theme of KOF 99's overhaul with the new (NESTS) arc. Not that different from Ash. That's all it's got really. Sake neko 21:02, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Just want to assure myself. You guys already know that Hong Kong comics aren't canon, Right? 58.64.42.188 08:40, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Of course; same with manga and anime. Doesn't mean that I still won't read them if I get the chance. Sake neko 09:26, 21 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Another question "Additionally, KOF Maximum Impact producer, Falcoon, stated that attempting to change an "untouchable" design such as Iori's put him under severe pressure. He stated that designing Iori's alternate (or Another as it is stated in the Maximum Impact games) outfit almost felt "unforgivable", unsure of fans' reaction to the change." and "K's yells following his debut -such "Dora!" or "Ora!"- was made due to Sha-V's suggestion. He reasoned that these shouts are K's equivalent to Kyo's "Kurei!" or Iori's "Doushita!" Could you tell me the source?201.252.27.64 19:56, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
 * The one about Iori's design was linked by me a year or so ago on his wikipedia article. If it's not there for some reason, someone must have erased it. The source is the KOFMI Developement Blog from Falcoon's side. Iori design: http://www.snkplaymore.jp/blog/falcoon/archives/2006/02/post_7.html As a side note, he also said Mai was in the same boat. It's the mid paragraph or so. Keep in mind he's talking about making alternate costumes for these characters and the challenge it is to do it for these two.


 * The other one came from the 2000 development blog from the old SNK site. K' yells: http://www.personal.triticom.com/~erm/www.neogeo.co.jp/kof00/diary/diary00_06.htm I think it's a cool note but also pretty trivial. If you're going to use this for wikipedia, it might not be considered notable. If you need more sources, visit this page. Sake neko 20:14, 21 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Reworded those edits. By the way, do you know any website that may contain merchandising of KOF, FF, and AOF characters? It was already hard to find for Iori and Kyo, but for others is impossible. Does Elizabeth appear in KOF XII? I remember a poster with her of kof xii. Also, is there a novelization or manwhua from KOF XI? I guess it would help to know who fights and defeats Magaki.201.252.21.156 12:06, 22 January 2009 (UTC)


 * From a glance, I didn't see much of it was reworded. Here's my two cents about the issue you copying verbatim a lot of what comes from SNK Wikia. Copying verbatim is not wrong per say, but what is wrong about it is that you don't actually give credit from where you copied it from which is one of the conditions required to do so. As it is now you are pretty much taking credit for work you didn't do. Also you shouldn't copy verbatim the translated interview text from cyberfanatix as I don't think they have any sort of GFDL that would allow you to do so. Additionally, the sources you state for where you get your images are not correct considering the sites you credit. Kyosei 17:47, 22 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Why should I even bother to tell you these things if you're not even going to bother crediting SNK wikia? And please do not credit the FFL interview transcript regarding the KOF XII interview when you really used Mad Man Cafe's translations. I ask that you say somewhere on wikipedia where you heard these sources from (preferably for the relevant article). It's pretty disrespectful. Sake neko 05:47, 23 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Merchandise isn't hard to find. It's more like finding the official pages/non-shopping version for them. In other words, most of the links I'm linking below are not good for wikipedia. Anyways, here's some links to images:
 * Cosplay goods: KOF and MOW
 * Mai figurine
 * KOF keyholders
 * KOF gals figurine set
 * Various gal figurine collections; scroll down to the カプコン/SNK系 section
 * KOF MI2 Gals figurine sets
 * SNK Gals Beach Attack figurine set
 * Capcom vs SNK 2 figurines
 * Kinu Nishimura Mai figurine
 * News about any SNK manhua


 * There's plenty of other things like trading cards, stationary, and UFO dolls, but I've only read about them. Plus, it'd take forever to find sources for some of the older merchandise. Best to narrow the search if you ask me. Anyways, Elizabeth isn't confirmed to be in KOF XII yet. I'm just keeping that note there because a random isp denied the original line I wrote (saying that her sprite isn't revealed yet). Rather than have a pointless edit war over it, I'll just leave it there until the game actually comes out. Who knows? She might actually be in there. Sake neko 23:58, 24 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks and sorry for this things I made. I will try to keep adding the snk wikia credits in the edits I make. By the way, it seems the key for merchandise is fanservice (very curious). Another curious question: who is your favourite illustrator from KOF?, I liked the neogeobattlecolise designs, but I also like others.190.31.139.6 02:16, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Hey, thanks for taking the time to care. That means a lot. :) I'd agree about the fanservice bit in merchandise. My favorite illustrator? I can't choose since I like them all. Even the ones that I can't seem to find the name to. Like the one for the KOF XI winpose artwork. Still wondering who did them... Sake neko 07:25, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

Could you tell me what is the source for the neo geo polls? Is it true that the pet from Terry was the mascot from SNK? The source of "According to an issue of Neo Geo Freak, her breasts were modeled after Fumie Hosokawa and her butt is modeled after Ai Iijima; both women were famous idols at the time." would help a lot with the Mai article. Does KOF perfect reader or All about SNK could have some conception from Terry and Ryo? By the way, Here I found all the KOF: Zillion chapters in Japanese. There are also the ones from SVC Chaos. Regards.201.252.6.126 14:59, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
 * The note about Mai came from the Japanese wikipedia. It was the only sourced note on her article so I added it. Their source is a KOF Character volume that covers all the characters from '94~'97. Technically, it's a Neo Geo Freak publication and not an actual issue but it's pretty much treated as an issue.
 * The poll was from an older version of Neo Geo Freak site: http://web.archive.org/web/20000619213519/www.neogeofreak.co.jp/ninki01htm.htm
 * As far as Terry, Ryo, and most of the older characters go, none of the books I have say much about their conception. Need a book dedicated to their respective series to find info like that and frankly it's a hard task. Thanks again for the link but the comics aren't written in Japanese. I can only partially read Chinese. At least I can kinda follow what they're saying. :)Sake neko 18:38, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks, it seems zillion goes until kof 2002.201.253.201.61 19:45, 27 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Have you seen this? It seems Nameless has a back story.201.252.4.20 11:18, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
 * He does have a backstory. I'm just a little too apathetic towards Nameless to write it out at the moment. I like his look but I'm kinda missing K9999 -I wanted to see Hiroaki draw him. When that wears off, I'll probably jot it down. :D Sake neko 23:02, 26 February 2009 (UTC)


 * A dream match having story is also strange, I wonder who will be the final boss character and if there will be an ending for nameless. So, is Hiroaki your favourite artist?190.30.4.200 00:01, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't think it's odd at all. SVC:MOTM, CVS, NBC, SSTenka (and even KOF'94) are also dream match games but all of them have official story.58.64.40.95 04:51, 27 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Do you know what is the official story of 2002 um? Is Nameless against NESTS?190.30.3.104 00:25, 28 February 2009 (UTC)
 * 2002 Um itself has no real story, only Nameless kinda since he's new. Here's his backstory in bullet points:
 * He's the 9999th clone of K'. He was made to surpass the original but experienced a few set backs in his final moments of "birth". To save his life, they used info from previous experiments to reconstruct him. He's the only living survivor of K's "children".
 * He and his "brothers" (other clones) were always dying, getting experimented on, and resurrected to repeat the process (ie: treated as objects) so he grew up with little hope for life. The story says that he's experienced death at least 180 times now.
 * Although made by NESTS, he and his siblings aren't really considered members. They're only tools to see how well a normal human can handle the Kusanagi flames (since K' did it). Most of the time, subjects become combustible (K' himself can only control his flame through sheer will power). As such, Nameless doesn't really care much for his creators.
 * What made him look forward to living was a girl in the base named Isolde. Every time he's severely injured, he saw her when his wounds were treated. Though he can't express his feelings for her, he hopelessly falls in love with her.
 * Once the lab people saw that he could handle the Kusanagi flame, Nameless painfully had his glove grafted on him. It melds metal and flesh together and amplifies the will power of the user. Was originally meant to used on K'. Makes it so he can control his flames as well as Kyo (in theory).
 * After testing is done, he's sent to earth to test his combat capabilities. Became an assassin of sorts. Spared a man trying to runaway from NESTS who told him the truth about Isolde; she was a test experiment for the Anti K' project. She was introduced to Nameless in an effort to bring out their full potential. Apparently, in order to fully control the Kusanagi flame in Nameless, she was killed and her spirit lives inside Nameless' glove.
 * Nameless doesn't know whether or not he should believe him but it's plausible since he hasn't seen Isolde after he got his glove. Not wanting to risk losing Isolde, he unquestionably follows any orders he's given by NESTS. Still has doubts about his life as a pawn but hopes to one day return Isolde to her rightful body.
 * That's Nameless really. A softer version of K9999 with a tragic past. Apparently, he doesn't have a real name besides his codename so he's referred to as Nameless. Sake neko 02:56, 28 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Nice. By the way, sake neko, I wanted to know if thought of a better reorganization for the list of kof characters in wikipedia? A Introduced in kof game could be a bit long, any idea?201.253.236.166 23:58, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm not really that interested in wikipedia anymore since they keep changing their requirements for articles and what's "notable" for them. I wouldn't know about making a solid format for that article based on wikipedia's standards since it's pretty story related -something that I remembered wikipedia frowned on. I personally didn't really have any qualms over the previous format with protagonists, antagonists, and other teams but I guess it didn't work out for some reason. So I can't really add any input here. Sorry. Sake neko 00:10, 2 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Hey look this artbooks, they seem to have a lot of KOF Aand other snk series. By the way, do you know if if perfect reader has from development info from kof xi. Alos, a curious question; in kof 97 Kyo has a move in which he creates fire towers named Kusanagi no Keenzanza, howver, in enza, however, it was change in following games to another name, what happend? (even his clones use it) use the new name).190.30.6.42 15:09, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry that this reply took awhile but it took me awhile to look it up. Actually that move's name is "Saishu Kessen Ougi, Mushiki". Depending on his game appearance, the name also changes as well. In 1998, it's "Sanshingi no Ichi", "Sanjingi no Ichi" in 2003, and in NGBC it's "Mushiki no Ichidan". As far as I know, Kyo-2 shares the name change that Kyo gets. Kusanagi's version is named "Saishu Kessen Ougi, Zeroshiki". As for why the name changes, I can't really tell you. Most likely Kusanagi's changed since they wanted to make him slightly more independent from Kyo.Sake neko 19:28, 14 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Do you where does this and does this come from from and what does it say?201.253.243.190 14:16, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Can't see the second link and the first one has pretty hard to read writing. What I can make out is that it's basically a visual guide for how Ash should move/express himself. A lot of it is stuff everybody already knows (moves elegantly has a big smile) but the lower right comment is not quite sure about how the back of hair and posture should be at a certain angle. Is this clothing and style okay for overseas people... that type of thing. This kinda looks like Nona's doodles though; makes me wonder if he created him or just was one of the artists who tweaked him? Sake neko 19:28, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

I thought that it was Falcoon the one who tweaked Ash. However, do you know if there will be a maximum impact 3 or regulation A2. I heard rumors about them, but still there has not been an official announcement. By the way, was Nona the one who made the KOF 2001, 2002 and XI characters designs? If that’s so I think he improved a lot. Well, I don’t like the KOF 2001, and 2002 designs, they were a bit weird. However, I liked how Falcoon made the new designs of 2003.190.30.13.26 20:59, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
 * You do realize that there's a team of designers made for each character, right? It's never just one person doing the designs. Anyways, nothing yet about Regulation A2 but if it's still listed on the official website, something might pop up eventually. Nona did the main illustrations for 2001 and 2002. Main illustrations are the artwork of characters you usually see in their profile or official illustrations. Like the stuff you usually see in early magazine scans. He's the art director for XII which means he oversaw and had the final word on the look for nearly every visual graphic in the game. He probably did a few in-game illustrations (based on the leaked vids I've seen) but the pretty artwork you've seen in posters and the official website is done by Ogura Eisuke. XI's main illustrations were done by Hiroaki. Sake neko 21:10, 14 March 2009 (UTC)


 * That Hiroaki is sure pretty good. I also like the illustrations of Eisuke Ogura.190.30.13.26 21:54, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

I have been working in the KOF games articles. I am by the 97, do you know where is that explanation that videogames journals made some teams? Thanks.190.30.13.26 18:45, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
 * All about SNK book says it but Neo Geo Freak does too. The anniversary site also mentions it in Blue Mary's profile, I think. You can look here and here to see which magazines participated and what other teams they made.

Thanks, its amazing how much development can be found from kof 97 and how little from 96 and 95.01:00, 16 March 2009 (UTC)190.31.141.240

Is there some conception info about garou mark of the wolves? I thought there could be a bit in some snk books, since that is a bit older than the other fatal fury games.200.82.40.206 01:15, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Seeking images of NPC Samurai Shodown character
I would like any image (even some anime-styled fanart) depicting character as long as it isnt direct lowres sprite from game, such as Genshinsai in SS5 cutscenes. I mainly need the part depicting character's face/head, because of my site's page (unpublished yet) with a bunch of clickable character icons leading to character profiles.

Im having troubles with portraits/images for those NPC chars: Ayame (teacher of Galford & Earthquake); Hanzo's mentor (and I need his name too if its known); O-Shizu; Kei Odagiri; Nakoruru's father, and grandfather, and grandmother. Maybe there is some image from NakoADV or something; Sakon Kurokouchi (teacher of Ukyo, father of Yumeji); Genshinsai (leader of Kazama ninja clan); O-Saki; Ocho - Warriors Rage PSX; Mario - same; Sadanobu Matsudaira - mentioned in Hanzo's SSAZ biography. Tanuma Niji - mentioned in Hanzo's SS5 ending; Yui Shosetsu - mentioned in Jubei's SS1 ending; (I know that last two are historical personaes, still I would like some artwork of them);

Also I want to ask about character depicted there: http://mugen-ryu.matrix.jp/icon/mitsurugi-d.jpg I assume he is from SS:RPG

And where on the net can I find text of Samurai Spirits Sen endings. I occassionally see short info from them popping here and there on SNK wikia so..

Black Shroud 14:15, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
 * SS sen endings and other misc. info from players: http://jbbs.livedoor.jp/game/43048/
 * Warriors Rage videos for pic purposes: niconico


 * Can't help you on some of those fanart requests because some of them are never pictured in the series. The ones that aren't shown are Ayame, Hanzo's mentor (no name for him officially), Yumeji's father, and the miscellaneous historical/mythical figures like Yui Shosetsu and Okitsugu Tanuma (the guy from Hanzo's SSV ending). Other characters who are also not shown are Saki, Kyoshiro's father, Sugoroku's father, and Nakoruru's father (unless you count the RPG or SSV, he has a tiny sprite not really worthy for your purposes).


 * There's no mention of Nakoruru's family in the Nakoruru ADV aside from her mother but she has no facial features. You can get a screenshot of her from the OVA since she looks the same in both media. The closest one for Ayame is the Aoi Nanase comic about Galford from a doujinshi book and I don't think that's very accurate.


 * That guy that's pictured in that icon is a relatively minor villain in the RPG. The only things really notable about him are his hunchback figure, his stuttered way of talking, and that he can grow an extra arm near his eye. Your party meets him in the first chapter, he taunts your party, you fight him three times around the same area before you finish him off for a key you need. Not much more you can really say about his importance in the series aside from his development info... Sake neko 18:27, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Concepts of Asura's weapons
Cover image from SSAZ OST has some concepts, but they are covered by logo. I wonder if there are some images with good view of weapons' details. Black Shroud 17:05, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Usually that type of info can be found in the mooks for the game or the Neo Geo Freak magazines. The best ones are the mooks that Neo Geo Freak made but they're also much harder to find. Sometimes the game manuals have those images as well. I do not own any of these so good luck searching. Sake neko 01:36, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

Mizuki cooperationg with Yuga and Ambrosia
Mizuki cooperating with Ambrosia - confirmed.

Mizuki's demon beast (Maju) being created by Yuga - confirmed

Mizuki's demon beast carrying part of Haohmaru's flesh (or blood) to Yuga after Mizuki's defeat - confirmed.

Yuga creating male Deku on base of what Maju carried - confirmed. Female Deku wasnt difficult to create because Shiki was already under Yuga's control.

Deku's having part of Haohmaru / Shiki flesh inside them (they are based on those) - confirmed

Mizuki attempting to pull double swords from center of Makai but failing, so Yuga itself is forced to do it - confirmed

Yuga giving those swords to Shiki - confirmed

Mizuki uses sanskrit in SS2, whereas sanskrit is Yuga's theme as a character

Yuga - Mizuki bits were introduced after Yuga's introducement as character

Amakusa and Mizuki shown in Asura Zanmaden OVA as causes which leaded to Yuga's arrival - confirmed.

Black Shroud 17:59, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
 * No, this is fan conjunction. Learn to separate the two. Maju is told to be made by Yuga but in some sources, he's actually Ambrosia. Partially confirmed on those other things concerning their relationship with one another. In any case, there's no real established connection between Mizuki and Yuga. It's insinuated at best. Sake neko 19:12, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I take it that Maju's body time to time can become host to Ambrosia, when Ambrosia needs to talk to Mizuki or something. And Maju's body is made by Yuga, who is proficient at stuff that looks like mix between alchemy and genetic manipulation (remember Gandara)Black Shroud 19:52, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, yes. Anyways, when you look at the official info, it's more like Yuga probably used Mizuki rather than worked with her. Meaning they don't really have much of a relationship besides that. No matter what facts you bring to the table, the developers were very adamant when they stated that Ambrosia is not Yuga. I looked in Ambrosia's entry for the SNK book and he's only listed in the first two games. Yuga is a completely different entry that says nothing about being Ambrosia. So please, stop insinuating that they are the same entity. Sake neko 20:10, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

Manner of speaking
I would like to add something like comparison of voices of Kazuki/Enja.Kazuki/Enja and Sogetsu/Suija.Sogetsu/Suija, because those 6 patterns are kinda unique because they differ so much. However Im not sure how to put it in profiles (I think about adding to Personality sections), and also maybe you can add something to my descriptions.

Kazuki's manner of talk is mostly screaming and/or insulting opponent, in win poses he also laughs sometimes. Enja.Kazuki doesnt speaks words aside from rare "Shi-ne!". Instead he produces wild beast-like roars, and painful screams (as if his power hurts him). Enja can not speak (human language at least), the most he is capable of is gibberish. Usually he loudly laughs and/or roars.

Sogetsu speaks calmly and silently, his trademark is adding "desu" in the end of each phrase to emphazise its importance. Suija.Sogetsu speaks in loud and unhumanly resonating "godlike" voice, and comments almost each own. Suija's voice is mostly deep, but time-to-time he does high-pitched screams Black Shroud 17:58, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Enja Kazuki sounds more like he's growling and roaring than screaming. He sounds more like the common interpretation of a demon-possessed person in Japan (though it's stylistically toned down). I don't think it's really important to repeat this for Enja since it's already stated in his development info.


 * Sogetsu's section is a little off. He sometimes delays the "desu" to denote someone. It's his way of sounding arrogant while still acting professionally. I can't fully comprehend what you're trying to say with Suija Sogetsu but I think you mean that he's acting more god-like. Which is true. I'd add that he emphasizes his power by adopting a slightly archaic speech pattern. Sake neko 19:01, 27 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Sound of Suija.Sogetsu's voice is resonating and echoing, as if it doesnt comes from a mere human being but from some divine force. Other example of this I can think of is Yuga, but other thant that its definitely unusual for Samurai Shodown characters to sound like that, thats what I would like to point out.Black Shroud 19:44, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
 * You can say that he speaks with an echo then. Sake neko 19:48, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

SNK character cameos in SS RPG Omake chapter
I need a full list if possible. I know there are Kyo, Iori, Yuri, Athena, Kim, Ryuhaku Todoh, but I guess there should be other ones Black Shroud 12:38, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
 * You can just go to the game's article and click on the "What links here" option on the left column. Pretty much shows you all of the cameos that I know of so far. Sake neko 00:20, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

Rock Howard
I am trying to revive the Rock Howard article from wikipedia, but I am needing a few sources. Do you where is the source that says Rock will not appear in a 2D KOF game? The other sources is about falcoon commenting on Geese legacy and the last is a source for the online novel. There is something which left me curious. Did Terry and Mary break up by Garou MOTW. It is curious that Mary was his girlfriend for over 10 years. 201.253.243.154 20:02, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Let me just put this out there. Terry and Mary never broke up because they never had that kind of relationship to begin with. According to SNK, they were never officially a couple kind of along the lines of how Mai and Andy are. They are close friends, but that's it.Kyosei 20:10, 25 March 2009 (UTC)


 * I see, that makes sense.Tintor2 20:16, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

I suppose that the comment from falcoon about Geese s legacy is from his maximum impact comments, but I dont understand Japanese. Is the novel available in a site, and by the way who authored it?190.31.135.120 16:33, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
 * This is getting tiresome. Go here for sources now on. I don't know about which online novel you're talking about but the famed MoW 2 novel, it actually turned out to be a partial fan and partial official online. Rather than argue over who did what, I erased it and pretty much kept the only known official info that was released for MoW 2. To be honest, I'm more comfortable with this option than citing that novel; some of it was just too made up and too contradictory anyway.Sake neko 18:26, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

Atom Rebels
As I recall, Jushiro/Saya/Rinka anti-shogunate organisation is called "Atom Rebels". How is it written in japanese and where I can get info on it? Black Shroud 11:54, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

Rokuban Shoubu/SS Anthology re-dub voices?
I heard there were 16 re-vocied characters in game, so I decided to check in SNK wikia and here's what I got:


 * Re-dubbed: Haohmaru, Hanzo, Galford/Rasetsu Galford, Wan-Fu, Tam Tam, Sieger, Mizuki, Rimururu, Enja, Suija
 * Unknown: Basara, Kazuki, Sogetsu, Mina, Rasetsumaru, Kusaregedo
 * Voice actor carries over from SS5 through SS6: Yumeji
 * No re-dub: All other characters

I wanted to ask are those characters I marked unknown, re-dubbed as well? Black Shroud 10:52, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

I'm Terry Painkiller...
Man...

Please...

If you are based in data from the SNK Playmore's sites, please! Searching former datas, from former SNK. I've updated the datas with former files... SNK Playmore neglect of stories, character and so on from Fatal Fury and Art Of Fighting series...

Look out to it!!! --Terry Painkiller 21:40, November 18, 2009 (UTC)

In good portuguese... A sua arrogância não vale a pena! www.gamefaq.com

Se Fatal Fury é de 1991 e Terry tem 21 anos, como ele será de 1971? Não sabe fazer contas?

O enredo de Garou: Mark Of The Wolves se passa em 2005 e Terry está com 35 anos! Não sabe fazer contas?

I won't waste my time speaking in english more. And I'm gonna edit more and more... Hmph!

Thanks
Thank U ^_^

Re.: Days of Memories stories
My favorite bakeneko! Thanks for the welcome, kitten, good to see you too. I'm still trying to figure out why I didn't talk to you, yet; I'm so sorry. :( Well, onto business. Those stories are definitely something I'd like to see, I have a feeling that they'd be some precious little gems that we should give special focus. But, Days of Memories after all is just another reality of the SNK Universe, so there should be some focus to the other realities as well. That was kinda my idea, but indeed, there would be too many pages, that at the end of the day, most of them would only contain trivial information. So, what do you suggest? We could create a sub-page that would contain all of the information regarding different incarnations of one character. I think it would be "tidier". What do you think? Oh, and Kiyosei's gotta approve it, as well. Mr.Kraken 23:01, January 12, 2010 (UTC)


 * I like it and completely approve it. Can you ask Kiyosei if he's alright with it? Oh, BTW, you sure don't want to be an admin? =D Mr.Kraken 23:37, January 12, 2010 (UTC)


 * Gee, I don't know... Miscellaneous, maybe? Or, we could create a new category just for it... or, we could create a category for all of the sub-pages. Mr.Kraken 23:55, January 12, 2010 (UTC)


 * Sorry I kept you waiting. I think it's better if we use the "Characters portrayals in other media" category. So, I will be waiting until you reply, so we can get it started. :D Mr.Kraken 11:34, January 13, 2010 (UTC)

So you were making other medias huh? That's cool. ^^ 9:27 ThunderBeam707 January 16, 2010 (UTC)

ThunderBeam707
Hey you must be Sake neko, Kyosei's sister right? I'm ThunderBeam707 nice to meet you. ^^ 9:42 ThunderBeam707 January 22, 2010 (UTC)

Sprites, and Their Order
Greetings, I just wanted to mention that your rearrangement of my sprites is rather baffling. You might not have realized they were purposefully arranged by size, chronology, then company. Most importantly, there was an aesthetic balance to their order that was lost when you rearranged them. I don't know your motivation for doing so, but it makes the sprite sections look messy and disorganized. Therefore, I reverted them back to their original state - except in the cases where you made other revisions. No hard feelings. D3volv3r 19:20, April 9, 2010 (UTC)

Character Pages, Now With 100% More Nonsense
The changes made to character pages are regressive and pointless. The placement of DS cards in Game Appearance is inconsistent and ugly. This was already solved by adding a Cards section. Now, it must be fixed again.

A few thoughts on these changes:

1) Sprites are once again messy and disorganized. Here are the problems:


 * a) NGPC sprites are underneath Neo Geo sprites. I can understand separating them, but putting them underneath is incomprehensible. They are smaller, with fewer frames and colors, and naturally should precede the larger, richer sprites they copy. Arranging them by chronology is pedantic and confusing.


 * b) Capcom sprites are separated with NGPC sprites. Again, this is utter nonsense. They were fine as they were, following the Neo Geo sprites since they were rendered on better, more advanced hardware. This is the most obvious and aesthetically pleasing way to arrange sprites (except for non-idle animations) - Weak Hardware ---> Strong Hardware ---> Stronger Hardware.


 * c) I have been thinking about what to do with non-idle animations. It seems logical to put attacks and other special animations in a separate paragraph beneath the idle animations, but only when warranted. For example: Billy Kane has no idle animation in Fatal Fury: King of Fighters. However, he does have a funny animation when he loses his cane. And, though I don't often include non-weapon idle animations for weapon-based characters, I consider them idle animations all the same. Therefore, it makes little sense to maroon that sprite in a separate gallery section where it will be seldom found. Which leads us to...

2) Gallery pages are redundant and effectively banish character cards to the wikia ghetto.


 * a) I have never once thought of looking for character cards in a separate gallery section. If I arrived to this wikia today, I would think they did not exist.


 * b) Putting the DS cards, and ONLY the DS cards, as little windows dangling on the side of Game Appearances only further demonstrates how shoddy and arbitrary this arrangement is. Why only DS Cards? Why put them in the gallery page as well? Why not put every gallery image on the side of every paragraph? The answer, my friend, is blowin' in the wind. The answer is blowin' in the wind...


 * c) The only logical, consistent policy is to put character cards in their own section on their related character pages, as they were. Otherwise, they are basically invisible, unlike every other piece of character art that is thumbnailed somewhere on the character pages. Because they are so small, thumbnails aren't necessary, and a separate gallery is likewise redundant.

Final Thoughts: I will be spending my available time fixing all the character pages. This is time I would rather spend making new animated gifs and uploading new cards. However, as long as these contributions are thoughtlessly arranged or obscured beneath a maze of redundant gallery pages, I have no reason to continue uploading them. D3volv3r 08:27, May 4, 2010 (UTC)


 * I believe I can answer some of your concerns.


 * First, sprite order. A contentious issue.  When I look at these sprites - and I look at them often, for I rip, time, synchronize, and upload them myself, and do not receive them from some magical GIF fairy - I see a clear distinction between hardware that is reflected principally in number of colors, size, and detail.  I do not see them as incarnations of separate characters that weave through a vague narrative structure.  I neither deny this vague narrative structure exists, as you and others chronicle in the History section, but I do not conflate the two.  Sprites are visual artwork, crude though they may be, and must be appraised as such.  Narratives are another matter and require their own rules and attention.  I would not presume to tell you how to arrange a character synopsis if I did not have a keen interest and knowledge of that medium.  Unless sprites are distinguished by color, size, detail, and only then series/storyline, they become a visual mess.


 * Secondly, any and all legal concerns are a separate and very complicated matter that I am not qualified to address. However, I can make one very simple and obvious observation.  If it is illegal, or even legally ambiguous, to post graphics ripped from video games, and I have no reason to presume that it is, and if the fear of legal reprisal keeps you awake at night, then remove them all without favor.  But if you keep just one sprite, just one screenshot, just one scanned image, keep them all.  Otherwise you are a moral hypocrite, hiding behind the cloak of legality while you enforce your own subjective whims.  If you want to have a serious discussion about copyright law, you might provide something more than a vague boogyman fear of legal reprisal without any mention of legal precedent, jurisdiction, or warranting circumstance.


 * Finally, though we certainly disagree about issues related to this site, I have never used that as an excuse to question your sincerity. I find that rather petty.  It's not my obligation to provide you with the countless number of hours I've played Card Fighters Clash, or any number of Neo Geo games - with no mention of the many hours more I've taken to properly rip hundreds of sprites, sometimes playing through an entire game to rip one character correctly - and I certainly don't have to justify to you the worth of any sprite or card I upload.  The mere fact that I invest my time here should be enough for any self-respecting person to realize that I value each of my contributions, and that's the only criteria that means anything.  If you felt this way about your own contributions, you would be ashamed to utter such spite.


 * As for your ideas about card tables and more detailed card descriptions, I think they are great ideas and will assist you in any way I am able. Until then and even after, the cards have as much value as any sprite or character artwork and deserve a proper, consistent place on each character page.  Cheers. D3volv3r 11:12, May 4, 2010 (UTC)