User talk:Sake neko

Hey, welcome!
Hello Sake neko, welcome to SNK Wiki! I'm Mr.Kraken, this wikia's owner. Feel free to ask anything, although it looks like you've got experience with this kind of thing. Nice article you created, I like it! See ya! Mr.Kraken 13:49, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the help
Thanks for the correct spelling of my edits. :) i'm not very good in english :-(
 * No prob. Er, whoever you are. :) Sake neko 23:59, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Well, well, nice job!
Well, since you've joined us I've been liking what you've been doing. Creating articles, adding information, you know what? How about becoming a sysop? What do you say? Mr.Kraken 20:55, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the compliemnts. Er... what does sysop mean? Sake neko 21:49, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Means admin. Want to? Mr.Kraken 23:07, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Not really. I just like adding info on the video company I like. Thanks anyways. :) Sake neko 23:08, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Samurai Shodown / Samurai Spirits information.
Hello, I am Black Shroud, you can view me as one of central figures in current Samurai Shodown online communities, and I believe I know almost all other major figures and players in those communities.. I am into this franchise for more than 4 years and to that end I gathered and translated from japanese alot of related info (including from japanese wikipedia), with thoughts of putting it together then in form of several documents. Actually I like 100 links to related resources, mostly japanese ones. As I see you are contributor of most Samurai Shodown info there, seemingly it is being taken from main wikipedia but I see some new stuff here as well (although there is big chance you were contributor to main wikipedia articles too). I have more info to contribute, however, some of it is too massive for wikipedia format I think, especially Samurai Shodown cultural/religious references (I made several researches on that), full texts of biographies/endings, special remarks about movelists evolution, reviews and so on. If "sake neko" is your main nickname, which means youre not Saiki and not Deuce and that I dont know you already, I would like yo contact you via ICQ or MSN if possible, or in case you are registered on some of Samurai Shodown-related forums, I can contact you there. My ICQ number in 337059977, my MSN is maneev (at) voliacable (dot) com See you
 * Well, this isn't wikipedia and wikia's pretty free reign for that type of info. Just add more sub-sections and explain away. I don't have any of those instant messengers -because they lag too much with my connection- so just reply back here if you wanna stay in touch. I also used to be signed in on forums awhile back, but I don't even remember my older passwords anymore so I can't do much about that. Be a member and contribute! That'd be funner. :) Sake neko 17:48, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Samurai Shodown / Samurai Spirits information.
Hello, I am Black Shroud, you can view me as one of central figures in current Samurai Shodown online communities, and I believe I know almost all other major figures and players in those communities.. I am into this franchise for more than 4 years and to that end I gathered and translated from japanese alot of related info (including from japanese wikipedia), with thoughts of putting it together then in form of several documents. Actually I like 100 links to related resources, mostly japanese ones. As I see you are contributor of most Samurai Shodown info there, seemingly it is being taken from main wikipedia but I see some new stuff here as well (although there is big chance you were contributor to main wikipedia articles too). I have more info to contribute, however, some of it is too massive for wikipedia format I think, especially Samurai Shodown cultural/religious references (I made several researches on that), full texts of biographies/endings, special remarks about movelists evolution, reviews and so on. If "sake neko" is your main nickname, which means youre not Saiki and not Deuce and that I dont know you already, I would like yo contact you via ICQ or MSN if possible, or in case you are registered on some of Samurai Shodown-related forums, I can contact you there. My ICQ number in 337059977, my MSN is maneev (at) voliacable (dot) com See you

Then I have some organisational questions
1st one is I will need to double-save information for my samsho guide and also in case vandalism happens here and this open-source stuff has its chances for vandalism or fake info. Also I would like to keep track not only for changes that are being made there (new info added in all samsho articles) but also I would like to know sources like for example if I will read something I dont know (though I doubt it) it would be interesting for me to hear from where it was taken and isnt it fake. Like if I read Saiki's plot guide on gamefaqs, its not full etc but I can trust him as the source because I know he is interested in supporting genuine info. And then, organisational questions like format of overall terms used. For example Slash and Bust modes though really used in english versions of game are actual mistranslastions of Shura and Rasetsu modes from original japanese versions. They just gone Shura - Shurash - Slash; and Rasetsu - Basetsu - Bust and that loses the sense completely, because Shura and Rasetsu refer to deities of kind and with Bust I only can hear stuff on forums like "Hey, Bust Rimururu is busty!". For another example I dont see sense in two Warriors Rage games. Not only PSX game international title was New Chapter (shinsho means new chapter),but moreso, Asura Zanmaden doesnt means Warriors Rage as well, Asura is name of a character and Zanmaden is translated as "slashin demon legend). Also I cant stand anymore EngRish than game title itself (Samurai Sho(w)down) and because of this I translate all movenames and all I can myself, to preserve original sense. Then if I will "contribute" and do game justice by editing everything as I think will be right, will it beacceptable generally ? I think such things can be talked out before with other posters.
 * Wow that was a lot of things you posted (I guess you're the same guy from before?) but I'll try my best to answer your questions and such.
 * Fake info and vandalism isn't really that big of an issue here. It's basically one of those things where if a fan knows it's wrong, they'll either correct it or raise an objection. Like I said, this isn't wikipedia where we have long and overblown arguments over source validity. The community's smaller so that's a plus (it means we're more laid back this thing).


 * When I add stuff that's from a Japanese only source, I mentioned where I found it in the summary comment box. If someone says it's wrong, I'll scan the page/link the website I found it on and show it the complainer's userpage. Then we can talk out from there whether the info's legit. If it gets to the point where you can't even stand it anymore, report the issue to the admin (in this case, Mr. Kraken). Fortunately, I haven't had to do this yet (although it's happened before at wikipedia). That's all it really should be, y'know?


 * My personal rule of thumb: don't post something up here unless you've got the official info in your hands and know that it's genuine info. A lot of the information that I've been posting lately is stuff that's mentioned in the All About Fighting Volume 2 and The King of Fighters Perfect Reader. It's pretty hard to argue with that.


 * The wikia's generally aimed to appeal to English speakers so that's why everything's er... "not like the original". Some names are just changed by SNK-USA for some reason, simple as that. That's why we list the Japanese title next to the English one so people can not really buy into the weird translations. So in other words:
 * Bust and Slash are just the English equivalent that was first introduced in SSIII. Not everyone knows the original names to everything. If you want, you can post what it's supposed to mean in parenthesis next to the term on the game's page.
 * "Warriors Rage" for the two games came from the English SS Official Anniversary Site. It lists both games using the same "Warriors Rage" name. Yes, their names are completely different in Japanese. That's why the original Japanese is posted next to the English equivalent.
 * Either way, SNK's been pretty inconsistent with their English translations since Art of Fighting and Fatal Fury. I mean "The Three Sacred Treasures" for KOF have been also called "Three God Items", "Divinity Vessels", and at least one other name that I can't remember from the games themselves. They all basically mean the same thing but you hardly see anyone else really use anything but "Three Sacred Treasures", the name first mentioned in KOF '96. Same thing too with Rimururu. She has that whole Rimnerel name floating around, but the name from the game stuck more.

I think that's it. Talk to Mr. Admin if you've got more issues though. :) Sake neko 21:22, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Samurai Shodown / Samurai Spirits
1788 early spring - 1788 early summer

Samurai Shodown II / Samurai Spirits: Haohmaru's Journey to Hell
1789 spring - 1789 summer

Samurai Shodown III / Samurai Spirits: Zankuro's Infinite Sword
1788 summer - 1788 early autumn

Samurai Shodown IV / Samurai Spirits: Amakusa's Advent
1788 autumn - 1788 early winter

Samurai Shodown 64 / Samurai Spirits 64
1789 autumn - 1790 summer

Samurai Shodown 64 Warriors Rage / Samurai Spirits: Tale of Slashing Demon Asura
1790 late autumn - 1790 winter

Samurai Shodown Warriors Rage PSX / Samurai Spirits: New Chapter of Blade
1811

Samurai Shodown V / Samurai Spirits Zero
1786 January - 1786 late summer

Samurai Shodown VI / Samurai Spirits: Tale of World's Greatest Swordsmen
Alternative continuity after Samurai Shodown V

Samurai Shodown Edge of Destiny / Samurai Spirits: Flash
Unknown (but happens certainly after Samurai Shodown 64).

I think its the best to eliminate confusion of game titles and timeline (a official US title, then translated japanese title, then when game takes place in storyline). In Preface you write everything that happened with character BEFORE events of first game he appeared in. I used it in Rimururu article so far but I think it will be the best for using everywhere so I thought about informing you. About place od Edge of Destiny in timeline I judged from Haohmaru's age because he has a date of birth and his age in Edge of Destiny was leaked by one of game developers when he was asked about when game takes place., so I counted and it seems to be between SS64 and Warriors Rage/Asura Zanmaden games, although I doubt it counts as same storyline and not something alternative.

Also please look on my userpage, I made some points there and I want some constructive dialog.Black Shroud 14:52, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Elimination of confusion with "Shin Gaoh" article
link http://snk.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Shin_Gaoh Please read this Black Shroud 11:02, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah I've read it. Did you see my reply? Sake neko 22:29, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Sake neko...
Hey man, is there a way I can talk to you in private? -- Mr.Kraken 23:01, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I guess. Anything wrong? Sake neko 23:02, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I think so. -- Mr.Kraken 23:04, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
 * All I've got is email though. That okay? Sake neko 23:08, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, no problem. -- Mr.Kraken 23:10, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
 * saki_neko@peoplepc.com ; Yeah, it's a typo but that'll get to me eventually. Sake neko 23:14, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
 * E-mail sent. -- Mr.Kraken 23:30, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Reply sent. Sake neko 00:06, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks, neko. -- Mr.Kraken 01:58, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

I'll team up with you.
(-)He pats you on the back(-) Hey, buddy! Since you put down information, I'll put up the pictures. So, how about it? Teaming up? Sake neko & M-A-S-T-A K-illa, huh?--User:M-A-S-T-A K-illa 17:21, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
 * That's great. Except right now, there are a lot of articles that need more information at the moment. I'm on hold for adding new articles now since there are now a lot of stub articles that need fixing. Maybe you can help out too? :) Sake neko 18:33, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Yeah. Anytime you need me, you know where I'll be! --M-A-S-T-A K-illa 20:36, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Just a test.
Hey, neko, Tell me what you think of this picture and what she is doing in this picture. --M A S T A K illa 16:29, 16 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Jumping up and waving a pom-pom in the air like a cheerleader. She might be scoring a point in the hoop for all I know. Sake neko 16:33, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

More of it: Jumping up to show that her breasts can bounce, but good! Now tell me what you think of this, and what she is doing. --M-A-S-T-A K-illa 16:42, 16 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Probably dribbling a ball or dodging an attack. Something with motion. Sake neko 16:54, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Good! Now tell me what you think of this and what she's doing. --M-A-S-T-A K-illa 16:58, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Not much. Just doing what you see really. I'm guessing this is a gesture she does while she's talking to someone. Sake neko 17:37, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Good! Now tell me what you think of those.





First: Tell me what you think Mary is doing in this image.
 * Touching her chest (about where her heart is). Looking feminine and swauve as usual. Sake neko 17:51, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Then: Tell me what you think Alice is doing in this image.--M-A-S-T-A K-illa 17:49, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Judging from the screenshots of the game, Alice's looking worried for Terry. Sake neko 17:51, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Look!
Hey. Tell me what you think of those pictures I uploaded, and what is Blue Mary doing in those images.

M-A-S-T-A K-illa 18:35, 16 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Looks like she's just being Mary. I don't know what else to say other than she's in bold and sexy poses. =shrugs= Sake neko 18:38, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Hey, there! I'm gonna ask you one more time, ok?
Hello, miss (you are a girl, right? :x) Sake neko! How are you doing? Well, well, I'm extremely sorry if I'm just being a pain in the... you know where; but, I'm just seeking what is best for the wikia. So, I'm gonna ask you one more time: Wanna become an admin? -- Mr.Kraken 23:02, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Hrm, but then I couldn't say "Mr. Admin" anymore. Sake neko 23:48, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Okay... that would be a terrible loss XD! - But, come on, think about it! -- Mr.Kraken 00:12, 29 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I'll think about it. Sake neko 00:13, 29 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Although I appreciate the offer, I think I'd eventually distort my admin powers somewhere down the road. Like, I'd be too quick to kick people out or erase double images too soon. I'm going to decline, but I'll still contribute. :) Sake neko 07:10, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Samurai Shodown series timeline/ Analog to 20th/21st century?
OK its sounds very obscure, but should that be noted that the timeline of SamSho somehow paralles our 20th/21st History?

The Story of the SamSho Games from I trough V and also SamSho 64-1 begins in 1786-9, in a cold war like era. Japan is in a chaotic state of war, they are many demon creatures in the Games and some characters like Neinhalt Sieger and Andrew have Firearms that are about their time. But then, in 1791, in edge of Destiny, these Fantasy-like features all disappears in favor of a 1990's like World (instead of a large scale war in Japan, there are Terrorist attacks around the world) and economic themes (Nakuru and Rimuru being abadoned by Nature) and the Weapons in the game are normal for their Time (except Suzuhimes Dragon Slayer ^^)

And finally, in 1811 ([]), possibly analogous to 2011, the Story resolves around the end of the Samurai Era (can be compared with the alleged end of the World in 2012, because of the Mayan Calender, google it ^^) and a revolution war in Japan. Also, most of the characters weapons are more "futuristic" in appearance, like Sayas blades and Mikotos Sword thing.

From Mi$ter []. and sorry for my bad englisch :-(
 * I understand what you're saying but I don't think it's completely right to say that the Samurai Shodown story is a parallel of our history. It's a non-fictional fantasy at best (very lenient when I say that) and the series only borrows aspects of history to better establish their settings for people who kinda care about that sort of thing. I'd say that the series' historical references are more like historical portrayals in fiction more than anything else. Besides, that's like saying the same for The Last Blade series because they have the Shinseigumi and such. Sake neko 23:47, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the answers, Sake Neko. =)

From Mi$ter http://snk.wikia.com/wiki/User:1950drnash1987.

Mark of the Wolves online novel?
Hello, Sake neko. I'm reading some things about this Mark of the Wolves online novel you've been putting on some pages... and I'm really curious about it. Is there anywhere I can read it? - Mr.Kraken 12:18, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
 * When I say online novel, I mean it's the online novel to the much rumored Mark of Wolves sequel that SNK reportedly scraped. When Garou was released a third time, Playmore posted the unfinished story in novel format since they wanted to explain some of the cliffhangers left in the game. It's down from the site but BoHyou was crazy enough to keep a copy of all of it (and then some) on their site. http://bohyou.vis.ne.jp/neogeo/ss/index.htm


 * Since it's more like an unfinished concept from the developers rather than an official story for a game, I put the tag "online novel" on there. I guess this could be erased when the actual sequel to Garou comes out. Sake neko 17:39, 26 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Hey, thanks, but... I can't really read japanese... Do you know any good online translator? The only one I know is World Lingo and it's full of adwares... -- Mr.Kraken 23:26, 26 September 2008 (UTC)


 * From my experiences with online translators, there are no really good ones. They always have a lot of broken sentences and can't really translate slang very well. There's babelfish and excite but they're picky about which Japanese font they'll translate. The best one I found for this particular page was yahoo japan. It's still pretty flighty but at least it has a better flow than others. |for=0|sp=-5|fs=100%|fb=0|fi=0|fc=FF0000|db=T|eid=CR-EJ,k7a3e3893016567feb370ebbc60e2c9a6,t20080927210126, By the way, this first page is just Rock's ending from Garou. Keeping that in mind you can pretty much compare how off it is. Sake neko 00:15, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

Hey!
Hello neko! It's been a while, huh?--M-A-S-T-A K-illa 22:25, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
 * It has hasn't it? Where've you been? :) Sake neko 01:55, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

I had to take a break for a while--M-A-S-T-A K-illa 23:59, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

A Samurai Shodown Warriors Rage (PSX) gimmick
Hanzo in Warriors Rage is called Nidaime Hanzo (Hanzo the Second). Its not the same man that Hanzo from other games. As I saw on the net it should be Shinzo, son of original Hanzo, that was host for the Amakusa in previous games. Original Hanzo then is retired it seems. Oboro is mentioned to be defeated by Original Hanzo in a duel before he was cast off from the Iga Ninja clan. Jigen Taishi is something like a ringleader of rebellion, and Oboro servers him. Nidaime Hanzo (Shinzo) seeks Jigen Taishi, and translation of US version of game makes it like Jigen is father of Hanzo. Japanese version makes Hanzo refer to Jigen as "oyaji" or "oyaji-dono" which isnt necessary a "father". In Nidaime Hanzo's ending in the end a man appears (ninja standing on roof) who praises Hanzo's ninja skills, and calls him his son. There a thoughts its too Jigen (escaped death) and therefore he is Shinzo's father. Other thoughts are Jigen was killed and person appearing in ending is Original Hanzo.

So, my questions are: Who is Jigen Taishi to Iga Ninja clan ?; How Jigen and Nidaime Hanzo are related ?; Is Jigen Taishi = Original Hanzo ?; Black Shroud 09:54, 13 October 2008 (UTC)


 * The short answer is that Jigen isn't related to Hanzo at all.


 * I re-read the Japanese script for Hanzo's ending over again and I didn't see Shinzo talking to Jigen at all. He only talks to Oboro about him and he's hardly that respectful about it. Shinzo just said that his father must've known about Oboro's plans as well. It's best to think of Jigen as the new Ambrosia for the game since he's (it's?) an earthly Buddhist entity that would be hazardous to life as we know it. Oboro was going to summon him as the eternal payback to Hanzo (any one of them really). You can see the pedestal Oboro created for Jigen in the Metamorphosis movie. Hanzo (the original) is referred to as a mysterious man (or Iga man) at the end so I don't think he's Jigen at all.


 * And yeah, Hanzo in Warriors' Rage is Shinzo. The creators wanted to point this fact out by making him slightly different in various ways. He's not officially referred to as "the Second Hanzo" in-game (unless there's an official nickname I'm not thinking about) since Shinzo taking up his father's mantle was meant to be a surprise of sorts for people who are picking up the game for the first time. The Second Hanzo name gained a widespread acceptance by fans once more people played it.


 * Additionally, younger Shinzo called his father "Chichue" -or however you want to romanji it- which is the traditional and somewhat submissive term for father. I hardly think he wants to seem weak when he's the new Hanzo (and he grew up since then) so he switched to the more masculine and just as affectionate "oyaji" when he's talking about his father to others. He refers to Oboro as "omae" when he speaks to him and "ayatsume" when he's not around him; both terms are derogatory as it gets for the archaic and formal Shinzo. Keeping that in mind, there's no way he'd casually slip and call Oboro or Jigen "old man" in a nice way (the alternate meaning to "oyaji"). The mysterious man also says "musuko yo", a cue in to Japanese fans that it's the old Hanzo since he pretty much said that throughout the series. Hope that answers your questions. Sake neko 10:15, 13 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Hmm, I think people wouldnt think of Warriors' Rage Hanzo as of usual one because of 1)Age, original Hanzo was around 40 in main games I guess, and add +20 years to that; 2)No scar on left eye; 3)Artwork depicts maskless Hanzo young, although that one may have been released later. Next, Jigen isnt an entity, he is pretty much human. Basically he was a important and known person in Bakufu Shogunate, maybe a contributor of sorts, but later he switched to planning rebellion. References to him as "earthly Buddha" refer to his status as enlightened (buddhist) master. Purpose of rebellion is to create a "strong" nation (where weak die strong survive) in the name of Bushin (god of martial arts as I understood), so Bushin is more of an entity here. Jigen was depicted in official Warriors Rage manga (Which scans I own). At first he was shown when Hanzo talked about him I think, he looked like wandering monk (looked closer to taoist/onmyouji) wearing a different hat in different pictures (a cone-like hat, and a normal rice hat). Then he was shown on the pedestal I think around time heroes stormed the castle to fight Oboro. Final time his "smiling corpse" was shown (mentioned in Hanzo's ending). Jigen looked as he fell to the ground and hat dropped from him, revealing face of very old man (older than Oboro), bald on forehead, with dry sunken skin because of which face looked kinda like a skull, and with mustaches. Basically scheme of command can be described like Bushin => Jigen => Oboro => Tohma & Mikoto => Amazons and other rebel forces.


 * I would like to take a look on scripts for endings and ingame texts (original japanese versions) for Samurai Shodown games, but now I dont have access to scripts of all games or to complete versions. Here is what I have: http://tenchusatu.jpn.org/samudata.html - SS3/SS3 portable, SS4, SS64, Warriors Rage 64, Warriors Rage (but some things can be missed here and there, like one game doesnt have intros, other doesnt have all character data, plus missed walkthrough dialogues); http://www.geocities.co.jp/CollegeLife-Library/9133/data/  - SS5 ingame text; http://www.geocities.jp/abxy_lr/sst/message/ - SS6 ingame text.


 * Can you name other, maybe more detailed sources except those? Thanks in advance Black Shroud 18:44, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Get this book: http://www.amazon.co.jp/exec/obidos/ASIN/488554677X/bohyou-22/ref=nosim
 * It's what I use to double check the Japanese story scenarios, in-game events, and bio info for Samurai Shodown, Art of Fighting, Fatal Fury, and others. It's good up to 2000 so it has some limitations. For in-game dialogue, it's easier to download the original soundtrack than find text citations for. Those other links you used are fine for the newer games. This is also a comprehensive site for bio info as it includes Sen, the RPG, V and VI, and other miscellaneous info. It also bullet points each definition's relevance to the series: http://www.latel.co.uk/cgi_bin/keburi/dict/dr.cgi?nonframe=0&index=0C&action=htmlize


 * You're right about Jigen being a former member of the shogunate and him being a "god" of sorts. Oboro uses the gimmick of Jigen's "godly" status as if he were summoning something, thus gaining loyal members to the rebellion and junk. When I said it's best to think of him as the new Ambrosia, I also didn't mean for it to be literal; it's just that's what he used for in the main scheme of things. Jigen himself is never shown in the game since he's being represented though Oboro. I've never seen a screenshot or seen him talk anywhere except through the old man who's "summoning" him. And yes, the corpse they're referring to in Hanzo's ending is Jigen himself. I know of the Warriors Rage comic but that -like other adaptions- takes liberties on characters and events. Saying that this comic is any different is like saying Bon Bon Garou is cannon for Fatal Fury. Since you have scans, you can make the page for the comic if you want. Sake neko 19:45, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

More on Warriors Rage PSX
I want to re-check some things I may know wrong because of awful SNK translations and possible lack of info elsewhere. So:

1)Japanese use something like "Serpent Yuga" term to Yuga found in Warriors Rage PSX. And in Yuda walkthrough there are bits of text like "Time's Serpent". I also readed that may be the symbol of eternity like uroboros, using a snake. But overall Im not sure what this means. I only know Snake/Serpent word doesnt appears in previous 3D SS games, only some Yuga symbols contain snakes (such as one tattooed on Shiki or one seen on Hanmen no Asura clothes). And one more point regarding that is Yuga and apparently Asuras have eye pupils in form similar to snake ones;
 * "Time's Serpent" is what's Yuda says in the Japanese text. Snakes in Japan generally represent longevity and sexual desires so it's not a bad symbolic item for these characters. As for why it's there, I thought it was just poetic justice on Yuda's part since Yuga would've probably repeated its plans through Mikoto's body. Sake neko 19:30, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

2)"Seven Kings" are mentioned in Yuda's walkthrough in Warriors Rage PSX. As far as I see ending contains picture of apparently 7 persons (because each one holds one of Asura's 7 weapons), and all those persons are one-winged (as Yuda). Their line in US version is "Seven Kings: We are the 7 kings! From the edge of eternity. We've awaited the rebirth of the Universal King." Then in very last picture Yuda grows 7 black + 1 white = 8 wings (I think as symbol that he reunited with his weapons ?). As for those persons, apparently "7 kings" refers to them but I dont get who are they (maybe spirits/fallen angels contained in weapons, like Lucifier, Mammon, etc see weapon names). Also "Universal king" probably is for Yuda/Asura but I guess there could be mistranslations;
 * The lines are very accurate to the Japanese version (just loses the original subtext of servitude). As for who they are, they are they are human representations of the seven weapons that Asura uses. This was covered back in SS642 when he was introduced. They have names but I can't remember them off the top of my head because they were the weird word plays of angels and such. Basically look at Asura's move list and those are their names.


 * On another note, I don't see why you keep picking on the English translations in this game since it's actually the best translations for the series. Sure, there are a lot of flaky ones there and Minto's lines were ruined (since she's not moe-moe), but it's actually the most accurate and lacks a good amount of Engrish found in other entries in the series. You should complain more about the localization since they were dealing with a somewhat heavy story about Japanese culture and didn't make a lot of efforts to really explain that. Sake neko 19:30, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

3)Tohma's origins. Tohma looks rather similar to Mikoto and Yuda ingame (pale white skin and red eyes) which are features of someone with Demon/Makai blood or influence. Shiki had 1 red eye because of posession, and then 2 red eyes in Rasetsu/Bust mode because of stronger posession. Asura/Yuda had red eyes because of his Makai/Demon World origin. Mikoto because of her heritage. But Tohma's origins were never explained (he was an orphan), while Seishiro Kyukou (double sworded version) walkthrough shows his talk with Yuga (through Mikoto), where Yuga reveals Tohma is somehow part of her plans, so she wants to give 2 swords to Tohma (she also refers to Tohma as "her master" which is weird, possible mistranslation). Which makes me think Tohma could be partially of demon heritage or just posessed/controlled by Yuga as part of her grand plan (same as Asura/Yuda was brainwashed and called by her to kill Mikoto's soul giving control of body to Yuga);
 * Tohma's origins are never really made clear but it's been stated that he's an orphan from a foreign country like Saya. Of course, they don't specify but all hints (in Japanese or English) never implicate any Makai origins of the sort. It's generally accepted that Tohma's albino due to his bleached looking appearance. His red eyes and surreal appearance (at least in Japan) is what originally attracted Mikoto to him as she thought she found a kindred spirit. In the script, she seems to love him for his kindness and will power in the end though. By the way, when she was saying "master" to two-sworded Seishiro, she was being respectful to him (Seishiro-sama), which is common etiquette when talking to a samurai of any class. She also respects him since she probably heard of him through Tohma, the one she respects even more (urgh, manners). Sake neko 19:30, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

Can you enlighten me on those topics ? :) Thanks in advance Black Shroud 10:11, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
 * It really does help to get the book though. It's a pretty hefty encyclopedia for a lot of the things you're asking. Sake neko 19:30, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

About book: Im afraid that book is incompatible with me, because I work with text trough several translators and dictionaries but I cant operate printed text / text on image, unless I get good japanese text-recognizing program which I lack as well. It would be best if I could find text from the book somewhere online.

About my previous questions: I would like to elaborate that I expected possible link of terms to something mythological/found in japan's culture since SNK likes to make such moves, but if thats not the case, thats fine too.

I recently came up with several more things: 1)since Japan had both shogun (military leader) and emperor ("formal" leader that bestowed the right to rule the country on shogun), the shogun was one who was slain in SS5 ? (so Yoshitora took his place). Because in some english translations its called emperor, or even "better", slain person can be called "king" and Yoshitora "prince".

2)Is there a summary to SS3 and Warriors Rage dramas? Never saw one.

3)Does SS64 drama CD exists ? Because several my contacts keep on bugging me to get one because they think it exists.

P.S. I just readed "It's later mentioned in Warriors Rage that he was the true Asura, as he had the emotions and thoughts of the original. He is supreme ruler of the Underworld and has seven kings in his service." bit in Shadow Asura profile. Is it mentioned ingame, and how exactly does it relate to Shadow Asura because original Asura used 7 weapons. By Underworld I get Makai (Demon World), so supposedly Asura could rule that place after Yuga was defeated. (The one possible way I can think is if we place Asura as Devil himself, and 7 kings as fallen angels and his servants, and Makai as Hell.) By the way "Asura" is a type of being in buddhism, a race if you want so what can mean "true Asura" ? I also saw in other places info like 7 kings is a squad of sorts, of which Asura and Shiki were members; and it confuses me because I cant link it with info I already know about characters. Black Shroud 19:50, 15 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Ah, that's too bad about the book. Sounds like something you should read too. :(


 * 1. Yoshitora's story is all about the real Tokugawa shogunate in Japanese history. Emperors during those times had little power and were basically puppets-leaders in politics valued only for their wealth and influence over common people (they kinda sat back and watched). Shogun were the men doing the most active decisions back then and fought to protect them and the land (the guys with real power). The structure of power went through a weird transition when there were no more big wars and the society changed with Western culture (that's what Last Blade and the Shinsengumi are all about).


 * "Emperor" in English was SNK's awkward way of trying to explain how important Yoshitora is since shogun is a bit outlandish and pretty foreign for most people outside of Japan (or for those who don't understand Japanese history). On a side note, Amakusa says a lot of stuff about the shogunate ("Tokugawa, you filth!" hur, hur) in English during the first game so there you go.


 * 2. There aren't ones yet but I could make them since I've got files of them. I'm just tired of transcribing drama CDs at the moment. They're both prequel stories to the games if you wanted to know.


 * 3. It does exist but it's pretty rare. I haven't seen it or heard it either but it's floating around somewhere. If you hear the SS Best Collection, you can hear snippets of it in their drama/montage tracks. That's probably the reason why you have people hassling you to get it. It's pretty hard to find like the LB2 drama CD so good luck finding it.


 * PS - It's greatly implied that Asura is the king of all kings in Hell. Since SNK doesn't seem to have plans to continue that story, I think it's safe to leave it at that. The whole "true" and "shade" is basically just what it implicates. Both Asura are the same being; it's just that one form was more true to Asura's original form than the other. As for the reference to the modern day god, it's probably best to say a sentence about it and let the links explain. Talking religion's not really my thing.


 * As for sources on the symbolism and Japan's culture, there's lots of them. Wikipedia's a good start but really the best way to find out about it is through books. Sake neko 20:30, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

About Galford
Since I saw many different versions on the net, I will just list all those "facts" so you can say what is true and what false (or possibly retcons if there were some) -Galford's style is Koga Ninjutsu -Galford's style is Koga Ninjutsu -Galford was trained under Ayame, a ninja from Koga clan -Galford was trained under Kaede, a wife of Hanzo Hattori from Iga clan -Kaede is from Koga clan -Galford and Earthquake trained under same master -Galford's scarf is a present from Ayame -Ayame and mentor of Hanzo fell in love, and some time after they left their clans

aside of that, sentence from Yuda's ending "We are 7 kings. From the edge of eternity, we awaited the return of universal king", could you possibly type it in japanese ? Im interested mainly in how "7 kings" and "universal king" look on japanese, and does "from edge of eternity" mean "for very long time", or there can be something else. I just remembered Asura Zanmaden used "ou" kanji for mode changes of Enja and Suija, and it was commonly translated as "emperor", not as "king". Black Shroud 21:07, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Ayame and facts concerning her, Earthquake, and Galford: true. Kaede teaching Galford and being a Koga ninja before marrying Hanzo: false. Since you're very interested in this subject about Asura -and speculation about Yuda's ending- I'll link you to a Japanese fan who shares your very same predicament. They pretty much quote the passage and add their own take on what these words could mean, very much like you do. I figured you'd appreciate it. I personally think that SNK's going to kinda leave their story like that as the new development team for the series seems more interested in the archaic -rather than supernatural- elements of the series. Sake neko 09:59, 20 October 2008 (UTC)