Talk:Brider

Is Ikki really Japanese? I can tell by his full name.
 * You're making the assumption that he's Japanese. Yes, he has a Japanese name, but that does not mean he was born in Japan or that he is Japanese. Characters who are labeled with actual nationalities (i.e. Gowcaizer, Hellstinger and Karin Son), are that way because it was specifically mentioned in their back stories. Remember you previously labeled Shaia Hishizaki as Japanese based on the assumption by name only and it was later revealed that she's actually an alien. Kyosei 22:49, November 29, 2009 (UTC)
 * How in the world did you know about some of the characters' nationalities??? 68.205.83.35 03:22, February 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * I found all the information for these characters from this page. The webmaster is a very dedicated fan of retro video games so all I had to do was translate it. I used a couple other fansites in my search too since Gowcaizer had a small gathering of fans in Japan. Sake neko 04:58, February 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * Just because Ikki's backstory doesn't mention his birthplace doesn't mean his nationality is unknown. Kash's backstory doesn't say that he was born in England. 68.205.83.35 21:13, March 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * There are plenty of instances where you cannot judge where a character was born based on their name alone such as Trevor Spacey and Robert Garcia. Kash's backstory does say he was born in England if you actually read the original Japanese source. His story is summarized version of that since it's not necessary to translate it word for word. Kyosei 07:12, March 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * It's not always effective to determine a character's nationality just by looking at his or her backstory. You have to look for the names of the character's family and/or friends since this will give you a hint about the character's true nationality. For example, Kasumi from Ninja Master's is a member of a ninja clan whose other members were born in Japan. This will give you a hint that Kasumi is actually Japanese. Trevor Spacey, Robert Garcia, and Tarma Roving are the only known characters who do not originate from any English-speaking country despite their names. Their ethnicities are white only because of their names. It is an obscure fact that Ikki and the Asahina Twins from Voltage Fighter Gowcaizer and Kasumi and Natsume from Ninja Master's have unknown nationalities despite their names and ethnicities. Just because Kash traveled to England near the end of his backstory, doesn't mean he was born in that country. Just because Ikki, the Asahina Twins, Kasumi, and Natsume's backstories don't mention their birthplaces, doesn't mean that their nationalities are unknown. 68.205.83.35 14:14, March 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * He didn't travel to England, he has a home in England. Big difference. Having a Japanese name does not imply they were born in Japan. they could've been adopted, born somewhere else and later moved to Japan (since that's where the school is) and then took a Japanese name. We don't know which is why you or I cannot judge by name alone where they are from. Their backstories do not specify where they come from which is why I don't like to make assumptions on their origins. It's arrogant at best to say you know as much when you really don't know for sure. Kyosei 23:10, March 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't think Ikki, the Asahina Twins, Kasumi, and Natsume moved to Japan. They were not born somewhere else. You're making the assumption that their nationalities are unknown only because their backstories don't mention where they were born. I don't understand Japanese. There is also no clear evidence that these characters were born somewhere else, moved to Japan, and then adopted Japanese names. Kyo Kusanagi has a Japanese name, but his backstory does not say that he was born in Japan. 68.205.83.35 22:13, April 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * Kyo's backstory doesn't have to say he was born in Japan because KOF characters, unlike Voltage Fighter characters, get more detailed profiles which say where they are born. We don't have to make guesses or assumptions because SNK tells us right from the get go. Voltage Fighter characters do not get the same treatment. Their official profiles do not state a clear birthplace unlike the KOF ones. Secondly, you completely missed the point I was making when I said that you do not know where they were born from just their name alone. These were just possible examples as to why you cannot make these assumptions. You make absolute assertions that there is proof beyond a reasonable doubt that they are from Japan without providing any evidence yourself. The burden of proof does not lie with me, it lies with you who are making the claim that they are Japanese. I say I don't know what nationality they are as nothing in either their backstory or profile suggests any. If you can find it, let me know and I'll consider your claims. Kyosei 03:58, April 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * I know that these characters are from Japan despite their backstories not mentioning them, while you are not sure of it. Because of this, you're making the assumptions that they are not Japanese in spite of their names. But in reality, they were normally born in Japan. The information provided by the Web master for the characters from Voltage Fighter Gowcaizer is a secondary source. 68.205.83.35 22:26, April 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * Saying I don't know is not an assumption, it is a logical conclusion based on the facts given because I know there are some characters who do have Japanese names but are not. If there is nothing clearly stating a nationality, I am not going to make any assumptions as to what they are. Saying they are born in Japan because their names are Japanese is an assumption. You say you know without providing any evidence to back up your belief. This is an assumption. I am not making any assumptions at all. I just say I don't know. That is not an assumption. The backstories taken from the fan site are straight copy and paste of their original stories provided by the game company themselves thus making it a primary source. Not a secondary source. Kyosei 23:35, April 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * Let me make it a little clear to you: There is an info box on the top of each character's page. I am certain that each infobox does not mention a character's specific birthplace because I cannot read Japanese. 68.205.83.35 20:04, April 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * They don't which was a point I made earlier with the whole analogy you made with Kyo. None of the official Voltage Fighter character info boxes have birthplaces mentioned at all. The characters who do have actual birthplaces are only labeled as such because once again their backstories specifically mention it. This is something I have been saying and repeating from the very beginning and why I keep saying we shouldn't make any assumptions as to where they were born and just leave it as unknown. Kyosei 21:44, April 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * I will not leave characters' nationalities as unknown just because their backstories don't mention them, and it is futile to do so. You're just a brainless dolt who thinks he knows everything, but actually doesn't. I am not making assumptions that Ikki, the Asahina twins, Ranpou Fudoh, and Kasumi and Natsume from Ninja Master's are all Japanese. You are thinking that their nationalities are unknown only because their backstories don't mention their birthplaces, but in reality, they originally came from Japan due to the fact that they all have Japanese names. You just don't believe me, do you? 68.205.83.35 20:22, April 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * Why is it that every time I don't agree with you, you resort to childish name calling? How does saying "I don't know" suddenly make me a "know-it-all"? I sense a contradiction here. Definition time. Assumption is a proposition that is taken for granted, as if it were true based upon presupposition without preponderance of the facts. As I mentioned before, names are not facts one can rely because they are not ever guaranteed to stay consistent/reliable to always stay the same or an accurate reflection of one's heritage. You made this mistake with both Karin and Shaia because you didn't bother reading their backstories and made assumptions based on their names that they were both Japanese remember? Now for these other characters I will grant there is no evidence to support my possible scenarios for their current names. However, there is also no evidence to support your assertion either other than their names which again is not something you can rely on and is very weak evidence at best. What I have been asking you since the very beginning, other than their names, what other evidence can you provide me to support your position? If you can't, then you cannot say what they are based on your assumptions. Kyosei 21:19, April 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * There doesn't always have to be evidence of where a specific character was born in his or her backstory. The name may give you a hint of a character's true nationality. For example, if a character has a Japanese name, he or she is likely to originate from Japan. Ikki, Ranpou, the Asahina Twins, Kasumi, and Natsume are examples of such characters. 68.205.83.35 21:52, April 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * Here's the thing. First you were saying I know they were Japanese based on fact. Now I'm seeing, well most likely you think they are Japanese based on their names. These are two completely different statements. The first statement does require evidence because you are trying to state an irrefutable fact. If it's a fact, it should be easy to support it with evidence and thus no conflict. The second statement tells me now you're not sure and you can't really verify it as being either true or false. You just want to say they are because you feel like they should be what you say they are. This is not fact. This is an assumption based on speculation. If this is the case, then I cannot support your assertions. Kyosei 01:35, April 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * I am not speculating Ikki, Ranpou, the Asahina Twins, Natsume, or Kasumi to be Japanese. In reality, they were born in Japan. You are speculating their nationalities to be unknown. It won't work if you leave their nationalities unknown if their backstories don't mention their places of birth. You are making an assumption, not me. 68.205.83.35 23:55, April 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * Alright let me simplify this even further since you are not getting my point. What I want, in essence, is an absolute, concrete, indisputable yes or no answer. Are they or are they not Japanese? So far your answer has been "maybe", "probably" and "most likely in reality". This is not a solid answer. It's like answering the question of "Are you a male? Yes or no." and answering "the hints say most likely I am male". I don't want hints. I want solid facts. You just give me shaky statements based on your personal convictions with nothing to back them up. Saying something is true does not automatically make it true. It's a logical fallacy to make the baseless claims you are making with these characters. "Their names are Japanese. Therefore they are Japanese." This is an assumption. Not a fact. You keep telling me that "in reality they were born in Japan". Where is this ever stated for any of the above characters? Where in the character backstories does this ever say that? Kyosei 02:53, April 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * It is also a logical fallacy to assume that a character's nationality is unknown only because his or her backstory doesn't mention where he or she was born. Kyo Kusanagi is Japanese only because he has a Japanese name. The same goes for Ranpou, Kasumi, the Asahina Twins, Natsume, and Ikki. This conversation is nothing but a frivolous, baseless, and useless waste of time. Kash's backstory does not say he was born in England, but disappeared from it near the end of his backstory. You don't have to look in the characters' backstories from Voltage Fighter Gowcaizer just to find out their actual birthplaces. That won't always work for them. 68.205.83.35 17:10, April 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * No, Kyo is Japanese because SNK says he is Japanese. He isn't Japanese because his name is Japanese. This isn't even true in the real world. If that were the case, by your definition, Shaia would be Japanese because she has a Japanese name but we know she isn't. I've already linked you other examples of cases where that is not true. How can you tell me you know Kash's backstory doesn't say he was born in England when you don't even understand how to read Japanese? It boggles the mind how you can blatantly state a falsehood as a truth without really knowing or confirming it for yourself. You still aren't giving me facts. You are still just giving me statements based on your assumptions that you want me and others to take as facts at face value for being true without actually knowing whether or not they are true. Unknown is a default answer in the real world. It is not an assumption. To say that as humans, we know everything is an arrogant and ignorant assumption. The same applies to this. We can't say for sure if whether or not they are Japanese because there is nothing supporting for or against the assumption. IF there is nothing to confirm what they are either way, there is no reason we should make any assumptions as to what they are. Kyosei 19:10, April 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * You're the one who is arrogantly and ignorantly assuming that the nationalities of the Asahina Twins, Kasumi, Natsume, Ranpou, and Ikki are unknown only because their backstories don't mention them. I really know that they are Japanese. 68.205.83.35 19:50, April 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * How do you know they are Japanese? How do you really know? So far all you have been telling me is that you say you know. What you haven't been giving me is your evidence. I got your convictions, now give me your proof. Kyosei 19:57, April 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * You're the one who hasn't given me evidence. You think you know that the nationalities of Ranpou, the Asahina Twins, Ikki, Kasumi, and Natsume are unknown, but you are wrong the entire time. They are indeed Japanese. End of discussion. 68.205.83.35 20:46, April 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't have to give proof because I am not the one making the claim. The burden of proof does not lie with me it lies with you. I don't think I don't know. I know I don't know. There's a difference. Who are you to say what I should know or think? You are not me. You are still avoiding the issue of providing evidence for your case as well. Kyosei 20:54, April 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * Now you've gotten us into an argument to see who's making the assumption and who's not. No matter who thinks where these characters were born, this case will never be solved. I am certain that the burden of proof lies within you, even if you're not making the assumption. 68.205.83.35 22:14, April 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * Saying I don't know what nationality they are is not an assumption or a claim, it's just an admission of ignorance. You are making a positive claim that they are Japanese. That you know they are Japanese and that you know that I am wrong. However, this whole time you have not proven either case to be true or false. You just keep making claims. When you make claims like that you have to provide evidence to support your position or they just become that. A claim, not a fact. Kyosei 22:26, April 17, 2010 (UTC)

All right, this has to end. I will show you where I got each characters' nationalities from in Voltage Gowcaizer. First of all, their birthplaces are not listed in the character's info box like KOF or Fatal Fury. The original infoboxes for Voltage Gowcaizer characters are:


 * 1) 名前 - name
 * 2) コピー - nickname
 * 3) 校内所属 - campus posting in the school (for SNK wiki: occupation)
 * 4) 年齢 - age
 * 5) 生年月日 - birthdate (month, day, year)
 * 6) 血液型 - blood type
 * 7) 身長・体重 - height and weight
 * 8) ３サイズ - three sizes (bust, waist, hips; if they're female)
 * 9) 好きな物 - likes
 * 10) 嫌いな物 - dislikes
 * 11) 宝物 - most treasured possession

Notice that there is no spot for birthplace (出身地; you can compare with Kyo to see the differences), thus no mentions of nationality from their stats are available. To get their birthplaces, you'd have to actually read their backstories. Since anonymous has clarified many times that he/she can't read Japanese, I'll take the "sweets spots" from each character's section that tells where exactly a certain character was born.


 * 1) Gowcaizer - 横浜シティの片隅 - In the nook of Yokohama City (in other words, Japan). It's in the very first sentence of his story.
 * 2) Karin - 中国、四川省 = China, Sichuanlu (in other words, Sichuan). It's in the very first sentence of her story.
 * 3) Hellstinger - その日から、カッシュはイギリスより姿を消した - From this day forth, Kash disappeared from England. It's in the last sentence of his opening paragraph of his story. The early parts of the story say that is father is born in England and that Kash was born to the English musician, Sir Hyde Gyustan (イギリスの交響楽の名手、サー・ハイド・ギュースタンの嫡男として生まれたカッシュ・ギュースタン), and that he spent his days since he was six being taught by his father (父も驚愕する天稟を持って生まれたカッシュは、６才の時に、父の招いた知人達を前に...). Kash didn't leave England at all until Ohga gave him the Kaizer Stone. My word, he even says himself in the original Japanese dub of the anime that he was born and raised in England! Was it edited from the international cut or something?
 * 4) Captain Atlantis - アメリカ留学生ランディ・リッグス - American foreign student, Randy Riggs (his real identity for the game). It's the first sentence of his story.
 * 5) Kyosuke - 東北の小さな街に生まれた京介は - Born in a small village in Tohoku, Kyosuke... (sentence goes on but no need to put the rest of it). It's in the fourth sentence of his story.
 * 6) Shaia - It's all in space (宇宙連邦直轄機関、第７８観測圏内機動警邏隊、第３特殊戦闘機構に所属していた) and she refers to earth as a label (「地球」) as opposed to saying something more natural like a place we know. Well, her real name is said in her ending of the game too so it further backs up that she wasn't born in Japan.
 * 7) Sheng-Long - 飛騨山中の僧侶の家に、凱座轟一郎は生まれた - Kaiza Goichiro was born in a monk's home within Hida Mountain. It's in the first sentence of his story. It makes no mention about whether he is related at all to Gowcaizer and the game's certainly not going to tell you.
 * 8) Fudohmaru - First sentence says that he was born within his school of ninja arts (訃隠流忍術宗家に生まれ), but then it makes mention of his adopted father (養父、不動犀鶴). This, again, doesn't state where he was born exactly and may even suggest that he wasn't born in Japan at all.
 * 9) Brider - no mention unless you know where "E Area" (Eエリア) is. Even then, it only says that his family has a long, legendary history as banchos (cheering squad leaders) from the area and doesn't mention any specific origin like the previous characters.
 * 10) Marion - He's a robot but he was created by the geniuses of the student body at Bernar (Bernard) School.
 * 11) Platonic Twins - Absolutely no mention about parents or birthplace made. The only details regarding location from their story is their surroundings moments before Ohga meets them: snow (雪), snowy mountain (雪山), ice (氷), and forest (森). Somewhere where no other people are and very cold.
 * 12) Ohga - details about his life activities but nothing about his birthplace or origins.

Now, unless you actually own a databook like the website owner from which I translated most of this from, I hope you can provide some more information regarding character origins from either drama CDs or the short-lived comic. I can already tell you that the anime only mentions Kash clearly -I'm basing this on the original Japanese dub, not the English one. Do not make anymore baseless assumptions for these characters. Sake neko 22:54, April 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * No, the Asahina Twins, Ikki, and Ranpou's backstories don't mention their birthplaces, but that does not mean that they were not born in Japan. I do not actually own a data book, nor have I listened to the drama CDs or read the comic book. This means that they were actually (and normally) born in Japan. Their names will give you a hint about their true nationalities. It won't work if you try to disprove this. Even if you do so, I will still keep in mind that Ikki, Kasumi, Natsume, Ranpou, and the Asahina Twins are actually Japanese. 68.205.83.35 23:26, April 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * There are plenty of real world examples why this statement is not true. To say as much is a baseless assumption. Kyosei 23:43, April 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * Do not change pages based on your own personal opinions then, because I certainly didn't do that with any other character. Changing a character's nationality based on a plain assumption on their name alone does not give you or anyone else the right to automatically do so. If that were true, Robert wouldn't be from Italy. In other words, please keep your own assumptions on talk pages only and not on the actual character pages. It's cumbersome to undo something that isn't officially stated anywhere. Sake neko 23:50, April 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * It is a clear fact that Robert Garcia comes from Italy in spite of his English given name and Spanish family name. But as with Kasumi, Natsume, Ikki, Ranpou, and the Asahina Twins, it is obscure. This is why I keep in mind that they are actually from Japan, even if you try to disprove it, which is not enough to reveal their true nationalities. The same should go for everyone else. 68.205.83.35 00:16, April 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * All I am saying is this: you are free to think whatever you like, but don't go around changing pages based on your own assumptions and the obscurity factor. I have read the official stories and stats for all of the characters you are putting into question, and I will undo them on the spot because they are not official. Please, drop this subject and move on. Sake neko 00:21, April 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * Though the birthplaces of Ikki, Ranpou, Kasumi, Natsume, and the Asahina Twins are not mentioned in their backstories, they are considered natives of Japan since birth. 68.205.83.35 21:49, May 9, 2010 (UTC)