User talk:ThunderBeam707

Welcome
Hi, welcome to SNK Wiki! Thanks for your edit to the Sie Kensou page. Enjoy your stay and contribute. Ways you can help out are:


 * Create new articles from our wanted pages list!


 * Expand the fighting style sections for character articles.


 * Create character movelists!


 * If you know more about the subject, feel free to expand any of our short pages!

Please leave a message on my talk page if I can help with anything! -- Kyosei (Talk) 00:52, November 15, 2009

Re:Wish List
My internet's been down most of the day, so don't take offense to this late reply. My general feeling looking it over is some of the teams don't make much sense. A few of them feel more like edit teams one would see in a Mugen rather than teams that would enter together if this were to be part of the canon story. At best, I see it as another dream match. If that's what you were going for then it's alright I guess. Kyosei 00:26, December 17, 2009 (UTC)
 * Please use the preview button next to the save page button. It helps you see how your edits will look like before you commit any changes. Each time you make a change on my talk page I get spammed with an alert telling me that someone has left me a message on my talk page. Also, I see you were trying to figure out how to link category pages. You can link categories the same way you link any other wiki page, just add a : before the word "Category" in the wiki link. It'll look like this in code Games.


 * Back to the topic at hand. Honestly, and please don't take this the wrong way, I'm not interested in knowing the story for your version of KOF XIII. It's great that you're passionate about it but I'm here as an admin to deal with any problems with the wiki not as your personal editor to critique your fan fiction. Take it to someplace like fanfiction.net where you'll most likely get feedback and a possible beta reader to polish up any kinks. Again, I must stress that I don't mean to hurt your feelings but bottom line I'd rather focus on the wiki itself. Kyosei 01:07, December 17, 2009 (UTC)

Re:Joe
It was originally under temporary protection to prevent a silly edit war with another user who didn't believe in the validity of using the official SNK Playmore websites for information for the character infoboxes. Although the protection was going to expire on its own in a couple days, it's free for anyone to edit again. Kyosei 01:52, December 18, 2009 (UTC)

Re: Emergency
When trying to make a new subpage from your user page the article's name must always start with "User:Your name here" and then "/Name of the article you are creating". So to make the fan character page for Smoke, you would create a new page named "User:ThunderBeam707/Smoke". This would be the same for any other future fan articles you would make. This can then be shorthand linked on your main user page as Smoke. Please don't be alarmed but I've taken the liberty of editing your user page to give you an example of what I'm talking about. You're free to change the name of the heading and link name of course.

If you want to use the character infobox template just copy the code below and paste it on the fan article:

This infobox is designed to be highly flexible. For example if you don't have a character's Bust, Waist, Hip measurements, you won't have to but it down. The infobox will automatically leave the label blank. You can use as little or as much of it as you need. Here's an example of what I'm talking about:

From what I saw, I think that's all you were having problems with. If you have more questions, feel free to ask if you're still confused about something. Kyosei 20:34, December 19, 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure what you don't understand since you didn't really elaborate. On a side note, you can erase the "KOF XIII Wish List" section from your talk page, since you already moved it to a subpage. Kyosei 22:21, December 19, 2009 (UTC)

Re:Fan Project
Please keep in mind that while I'm an admin here, this is not a paid job but something I do in my free time. I'm not here 24/7. Now, back to the topic. I really wanted to take my time with this one. I will be brutally honest but keep in mind these criticisms are aimed to help you figure out where things are not working. Right the short version: many of my initial comments I had made previously about your characters still stand. There's a lot of work that would have to be done. First, I think you need to work on basic writing skills. I see lots of run on sentences, confused punctuation, incorrect grammar, spelling and inconsistencies with tenses.

Secondly, there are some major factual errors about the basics of Japanese society (if these backstories are indeed taking place in Japan) and the KOF universe in general. Things I noticed:
 * Smoke earns a GED in college at 19.
 * GEDs are not earned in college. These degrees are the equivalent of high school diplomas. These are only earned if the individual never received a high school diploma. Now I'm sure you meant to say something along the lines of some kind of degree like an AA (Associate Arts) or BS (Bachelor of Science). Unless it's a vocational school like an art college, traditional colleges take 4 years to earn a lower level degree. An average high school student graduates at around 17. So he earned some sort of traditional college degree in 2 years? Is he a super genius? Also, GEDs only exist in either America or Canada. They are not issued in Japan.


 * Smoke receives marijuana to help save his failing eye sight.
 * First off, marijuana's medicinal properties are mainly for pain relief, reducing nausea and usually prescribed for cancer patients. It is not a miracle drug that can save someone's eye sight. It is also illegal to possess marijuana much less prescribe it as medicine in Japan.


 * Chain is the "ninth" member of the Hakkesshu.
 * There will never be more than eight members. The Hakkesshu are based off the Japanese myth, Yamata no Orochi, the eight-headed snake demon. Even the name Hakkesshu itself roughly means the "eight assembled warriors".


 * The characters' favorite foods.
 * For kids that were born in Japan, they sure love their American. Ever see what Japanese teenagers like to eat? It's generally not American food.


 * The assumption that Ash is part of some unknown clan related to the Sacred Treasures.
 * There is nothing to suggest that Ash is part of any ancient clan. At best he is possibly part of an unknown organization like Those from the Past.


 * Benimaru is an influential character in the KOF universe.
 * In the grand scheme of things, he is not a major player at all. Sorry Benimaru.

Looking at both their backstories and character profiles, none the characters seem like they have even stepped foot in Japan much less even live there. I sense a fundamental lack of understanding of basic Japanese culture. These characters all feel like they're born and raised in America. Why bother mentioning they were born in Japan? A good way to avoid mistakes like this in the future would be to do some kind of research prior to creating these characters.

There also seems to be a lack of focus, clear motivations for the characters and common sense. You mention weird details about the characters at different instances during the characters' backstory. Some problems I have:
 * Why mention Smoke has a problem with his eye and him seeing a doctor to take care of it?
 * Ash all of a sudden likes to hang out with Smoke. Why? Why would Ash care?
 * Smoke received his powers from a random clan. Again I ask why? Wouldn't it be more logical for that clan to use someone from within their own circle of influence? Why bestow power on a random outsider who they can't directly control?
 * In all of their backstories, I read descriptions about the character's hair. Why is it important for the reader to know the color of the character's hair while they're reading the character's backstory? Visual details like this should only be mentioned if it has some sort of story significance. For instance, the color of Iori's flames is mentioned because it signified the corruption his clan suffered in the past at the hands of Orochi. It's all well and good to mention a character's hair changes color when they transform but it doesn't move the story forward.
 * The phrase "personal homicide" does not work for me. His fighting style is to personally murder people?
 * Mysterious agents want to infuse Benimaru's DNA in a random person. These mysterious agents feel like a cheap, throw away plot devices to get Voltaku to hate Benimaru for ruining his life. This doesn't make sense. Benimaru didn't ruin his life. These "mysterious agents" did. Wouldn't it make more sense for him to hunt down the organization these agents were part of?
 * Many of these character's likes and dislikes sound eerily sound a lot like your own likes and dislikes. It feels like you're reflecting too much of yourself onto these characters rather than letting the characters feel like real individuals. Hence the Gary Stu vibe. There's nothing fans dislike more than self-absorbed Gary Stus. I highly recommend taking this test. Although aimed at the female Mary Sue counterpart, it will help you to avoid a lot of the pitfalls of the stereotype.
 * Why would Smoke wallow around in water when it's his weakness? It's like saying Superman enjoys rolling in piles of Kryptonite even though it almost literally kills him.
 * Why do you mention in the trivia section their fighting style looking similar to another character's? Why isn't it in the fighting style section?
 * You glaze over the most important thing you should emphasize in all of your characters' backstories: How the heck did they meet?

The best way to help improve your writing is to go out and read books. See how published authors write and create stories and characters. Taking advice from here might help your characters feel more believable. Keep in mind that for every detail you mention, there has to be for a reason for the reader to know it. It has to be important to the character's development somehow.

Now. Please, please, please. Do not bring this up on my talk page ever again. This entire detailed analysis I've done will be the last thing I am willing to do for your characters and your story. Even if you should request for me to give it another look over, I will ignore it. Kyosei 06:57, December 22, 2009 (UTC)
 * It's alright if you don't agree with what I'm telling you, but resorting to personal attacks is never the way to go about expressing it. Do remember it was you who wanted and asked for my opinions. I am not going to mince my words or shower random praise if I think a story has problems as it is not constructive nor helpful criticism.
 * Smoke is also has an unknown clan that is related to the Sacred Treasures...The reason he hates Kyo because his clan disgraced his clan, the fact that Smoke's clan wanted to capture the mysterious Orochi for themselves for their own greed, The Kusanagi clan spoke against this and this began to turn into an argument. In the fact they went in war, the Kusagnai clan was victorious and as Smoke clan has been shamed some had disappeared and some had committed suicide they were not heard of sense until Smoke was born, and this is his chance to regain his clan's honor.
 * Orochi, before he was sealed, was an omnipotent god that wanted to destroy humanity. How could another clan seek to capture Orochi by themselves when it took three clans working together to even just seal Orochi away? What profit would there be in gaining Orochi if all it wanted to do was kill this clan anyways since they were human? If this is why Smoke wants revenge against Kyo, then why wasn't this mentioned in his initial backstory you gave me? Since Smoke didn't even know he was part of this clan until recently, why would Smoke care about regaining honor for his clan when this was something that happened literally hundreds of years in the past? This is especially important since Smoke wanted to live a normal life. What obligation does he have to avenge his family's name? Even Kyo himself doesn't really care about his family's destiny or past feud with the Yagami clan and he already knew about beforehand.


 * Smoke doesn't like drowning. Ok...but most real people don't either. It actually was interesting that his weakness was water. You could have played upon that aspect of his character. For instance, he really likes the sea and riding boats but can no longer do so because of his weakness. He can no longer go out on days when it's raining and in Japan, a country which often has frequent periods of rainfall and typhoons, that must be devastating. He can only really live a normal life in a hot and dry desert.
 * Ash is he's always friendly. Ash uses people. He doesn't make friends. Where do you get the impression that he is a friendly guy? You still haven't mentioned why Ash would even know about Smoke much less care to even use him.
 * Voltaku's true propose is...it's best that I have him blame Benimaru for now. And when he'll found out the truth, then he'll go after the agents
 * This still doesn't make sense. First, how does he even know this was Benimaru's DNA being inserted into him? Did these agents tell him? This is a fairly rational character making an irrational decision. Does your character really have to hate Benimaru? This is not the same as the Lady Deathstrike and Wolverine story. Lady Deathstrike gained powers to avenge her father for her own twisted of sense of familial honor and patriotism. There is nothing I could see that your character could possibly misunderstand in his situation. He knows he was taken in by agents. So why isn't he going after them? Here's a few ways you can still somehow salvage this if you still wanted to use the "mysterious agents" route: 1) change your character's personality; make your character irrationally blames anything for everything, 2) have it so the scientists brainwashed him to believe it was Benimaru's fault, 3) have an impostor Benimaru who was there during the experiments mock your character and claim responsibility.


 * Chain uses homicide you would probably say the same thing about Yamazaki, and it doesn't matter what they eat and they possibly travel all the time, and heck they even serve this kind of fast food in Japan too. And I put the similarly down because I don't wanna confused anyone and put copy rights down.
 * Except your character and Yamazaki are not the same. Yamazaki kills people of his own volition. When your character kills people it is because of his "other" persona that is out of his control. What they eat does matter because it tells your reader something about your character. If you the writer don't care about what they eat, then why are you trying to make your reader care by mentioning it? To what copy rights are you referring to and how would anyone be confused? The only character you mentioned doing any kind of traveling was one. As far as your readers know, the rest are still all in Japan and haven't left. Yes, there are American-like fast food restaurants in Japan but they are not nearly as numerous or as popular you're making them out to be. Things Japanese teenagers would generally like to eat would be a rice bowl, takoyaki, ramen, teas, seafood, some kind of tempura, curry, onigiri, or various other kinds of sushi. They would likely be eating the things that would more be commonly found in their home country first.
 * Try taking your work to your writing/English teacher and get their opinion too if you're truly confident your characters can stand on their own. They'll probably be even more helpful than I ever could as they can give you advice on improving your stories to make them better. I just gave you a view point from a fan's perspective. Another fan will most likely tell you the same thing but not nearly as kind or constructive. Kyosei 04:55, December 23, 2009 (UTC)
 * Of course I know both your teacher and you are on vacation. This is just me giving you advice to consider down the line. There's still numerous gaps and plot holes in your characters backstories that you expect your readers to know and fill in for themselves on their own. There's also the problem that your characters still feel like Gary Stus rather than unique individuals who could easily slip into the KOF universe. I once again have to highly recommend you read this essay, take the test and (for simpler layman terms for the above) try reading here. These might help better to explain how I feel about your characters in general. If you still think otherwise, then I guess there is nothing else more that I could say. That being said enjoy the rest of your vacation, Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays. Kyosei 00:26, December 25, 2009 (UTC)

Re: ThunderBeam707
Hi there, ThunderBeam707, nice to meet you too. I've read the pages you created for your characters and found it interesting and thought of giving you some advice. It's just me, I don't know if I can be brutally honest like Kyosei, but we'll see. Call me soft. Brutally soft.


 * Smoke - a new rival for Kyo, right? I think that his existence clashes too much with the fact that Iori is still around, and still wants to be the one that kills Kyo (I think). You can have some interesting battles between Smoke, Kyo and Iori with that in mind, but remember not to outshine Iori with Smoke. And I'm sorry, but I'll have to say this, the marijuana thing is really strange. I mean, doctors don't prescribe marijuana to their pacients, they prescribe medicine... and the fact that he was smoking it in dark corners is weird, makes him look like a junkie, in my humble opinion. I believe you should write more about his relationship with Ash and how Ash used him and why, just to keep things interesting. He is an interesting character overall, but I think he lacks motives. I think you should also develop more on why he hates Kyo. If you include that on his backstory it will add more depth to the character, and will do only good to him.


 * Voltaku - I can understand why he hates Benimaru, but I do belive that he should seek his answers from the agents first. It would be the rational thing to do, right? You wake up in a lab, with some creepy guys piercing you with needles all over your body, and because of whatever thing they were doing to you, you become a freak that kills every single one of them. Go further on how he found out that it was Benimaru's DNA that was inserted into him, and have him destroy whoever told him that truth in a fit of rage. If I would imagine a rival to the flamboyant Benimaru, that kid would have to be just as cool as him, but in a evil way. The fact that Voltaku's shy and gentle, in my view doesn't click with his hatred towards Benimaru, but I will wait to see how it works out on the fic first. Now, the thing that really really bothers me, is this Martial Arts & Muay Thai. Don't take me wrong, but this is kind of redundant, since you're using a generic term and then a specific one. Muay Thai is included in what is considered Martial Arts, but you're treating Martial Arts as if they were a specific style. You've specified that his style is similar to Robert's, King's and Benimaru's. King fights with an acrobatic Muay Thai, Benimaru fights with Shootboxing, which is a variation of Muay Thai, and Robert fights with Karate, which has some similar kicks to Muay Thai. In my opinion, I think that you should just list his style as Muay Thai, or something like "His own variation of Muay Thai". This is your story and your characters, but in my view, if you fix that, Voltaku can be one really badass character, specially in that crazy red haired form.


 * Chain - I like how Daimon has his own rival, now, but there are some things that I don't really agree with. First, the fact that he has the Riot of the Blood. Since the Riot is Orochi-related, it would be much more suitable for a rival to Kyo to be infected with it, much like Iori is. And I really would like to see how and why was Chain, of all people, was infected with Orochi's blood. This is my view, so you don't have to take it as something official, but I believe that Orochi can only infuse someone with his blood if the person is willing to receive it, much like the Yasakani clan went to Orochi and asked him for that. I don't think he can pick someone at random and give him/her his blood, but still. One thing I don't understand is how he can amalgamate Whip and Daimon's fighting styles. Whip focuses on her long ranged attacks, while Daimon focuses on short ranged throws. I can't seem to be able to imagine someone armed with a chain throwing people around with Judo moves. Users of Geokinesis tend to be - yeah, I know it's cliché - down to earth, and I can't see how Daimon's silent personality would click with the demented ways of Chain. But still, it could be interesting, so I'm waiting to read your fics.

About the fics, overall, I have some questions: are you going to create chapters and narrate what happens with them? Or are you just going to add new information about them every now and then to their respective pages? I would like to see you do the first, it's more interesting that way, IMO.

Just keep in my mind that it's my opinion, you're not obliged to accept it, as, like I said, they are your characters, it is your story, and you do it they way you want to do it. But, it's good to see what others think about your works. Criticism is good, in a constructive way. I hope I could make myself clear, as English is not my native tongue, and please, don't understand as if I'm trying to diss on your characters, it's the opposite: I want to see them improve. I'm longing to see more of your work, both on the wiki and related to your creations. Nice meeting you. ^^ -- Mr.Kraken 03:01, December 27, 2009 (UTC)

Re: Smoke
The test is a way for you to see from a third person perspective on how your characters look like to your readers. Many of the questions listed on the test are the most common traits associated with Mary/Gary Sues and seen as cliched and unrealistic. The higher your "score" is the least likely people are going to accept your characters as "real" and original. Kyosei 07:41, December 27, 2009 (UTC)


 * Sorry for barging in, but I took that test and, man, that thing really pisses you off. I was answering somewhat like this: "No... No... Ahm, no... Jesus Christ, no... Argh! No!... OH DEAR LORD, NO! NO! NO! O.O" It really pissed me off to see how cliché people can get... -- Mr.Kraken 20:08, December 27, 2009 (UTC)


 * No, man, you got me wrong. It wasn't the test per se that got me pissed, it just reminded me how cliché people can get and it was that that pissed me off. You should take the test, it can be good for you (it can show you what you could change in your characters; at least they won't be called Mary Sues in the future). ;) -- Mr.Kraken 15:55, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

Re:Where's Mr.Kraken
How should I know? Honestly though, in all seriousness you have to once again remember every editor/admin here, Mr. Kraken included, only have so much free time to spend here. People have real life jobs and problems to handle which do and should take priority first. Not everyone who edits here is a high schooler on vacation after all ;p Kyosei 21:18, January 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * My point still stands though. A high schooler in general has more free time than an adult. Kyosei 21:32, January 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Not always, I just make it a point to at least check around here at least once-twice a day because I'm an admin. Have to at least check daily for vandals. If it weren't for that I'd most likely spend more of my free time playing this game. Besides whether or not Mr. Kraken has time to come here is his business and his life. Not mine or yours to question. Kyosei 21:44, January 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * =Shrug= To each his own. Kyosei 21:56, January 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * ? I'm not quite sure what you don't understand about my response. You don't know what the idiom "to each his own" means? The only thing I saw to respond to was what you liked to do in your free time in comparison to me. In essence, the phrase means "that's fine everyone has a personal preference/opinion". I wasn't expecting you to like what I do in my free time which was why I shrugged and wrote the idiom. It summed up my thoughts nice and concisely without having to elaborate because it's rather (or at least should have been) self-explanatory. Kyosei 23:02, January 6, 2010 (UTC)

C'mon, guys...
Hey guys, stop arguing, ok? I've been checking the wiki once or twice a day, I just took some time off from creating the soundtrack articles. I saw Aaron's message yesterday, was gonna reply it, but was too freaking tired and went to sleep. I'm here, and still intend to be for quite some time, so let's put it aside, shall we?

Oooooh, let it be

C'mon, sing along. ^^ Mr.Kraken 14:51, January 7, 2010 (UTC)

There's no need to apologize. ^^ I don't wanna be seen as "the boss", 'cause I'm not, even if I wanted to be. We're all equals here, I just wanna see we all getting along. (But, looking back at it, I guess I sounded a bit bossy, sorry. >.<) Mr.Kraken 18:46, January 7, 2010 (UTC)

Smoke
Interesting, you added more background to him. I found it pretty cool, he is gradually being turned into a KOF character, but there are a few things that I wanna point to you. Is the Comori Clan Japanese? If it is, than I gotta say that there's no "C" in their language, I believe - a more accurate name would be Komori. Also there's the fact that they have been around about millions of years ago... humanity started to appear about 200,000 years ago. Now, about his sacred treasure, let me explain you this: in the main continuity, there are only three sacred treasures and that cannot be changed, BUT, in the KOF EX continuity, there are actually ten sacred treasures: So, there are eight specified treasure bearers and six specified treasures. If you see fit, you could develop this story, put Smoke in the middle of it as one of the unrevealed sacred treasures and reveal the missing four sacred treasures. I like the way things are moving and I still am looking forward to see what will come of your story. ^^
 * Kusanagi no Tsurugi - the sword of Kusanagi is with Kyo Kusanagi
 * Yasakani no Magatama - the magatama of Yasakani is with Iori Yagami
 * Yata no Kagami - the mirror of Yata is with Chizuru Kagura
 * Yatsuka no Tsurugi - the sword of Yatsuka is with Moe Habana
 * Hetsu no Kagami - the mirror of Hetsu is with Reiji Oogami
 * Makaru Kaeshi no Tama - the resurrection sphere is with Sinobu Amou
 * ??? - Miu Kurosaki has an unknown sacred treasure
 * ??? - Jun Kagami has an unknown sacred treasure


 * I was going to ask you, but completely forgot it. I showed the sacred treasures of the EX continuity to ask you if your storyline is gonna be based on it. So, what will it be, will it be in the main continuity or in the EX universe?


 * And he wants to kill Ash, huh? Well, good luck with that... he's gonna need it to kill that pansy bastard. (I love to hate Ash! XD) Mr.Kraken 23:26, January 7, 2010 (UTC)

Re: Dragon Pills
Don't know honestly. Given that the outcome of Shen and Oswald's fight from their ending in KOF XI has not been revealed yet it's hard to say otherwise. I'm sure the next game will touch up on it though if he appears in the story again. Kyosei 02:34, January 9, 2010 (UTC)

Team stories articles
I don't quite see the reason to make these pages when these are just copy and pasted from the official website. If people really wanted to they could go there and read them for themselves. Kyosei 03:21, January 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * I know they are non-fan made, but you completely missed the point. This is just stuff you're copying and pasting from the official website. People can go read these over there. Besides anything that was important to note from these team stories are already noted on the individual character pages. Kyosei 03:26, January 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * It's fine. Don't feel too bad about it. ^^ Kyosei 03:31, January 9, 2010 (UTC)

Re: Hey
How's it going? Man, I know it's quite a blasphemy to say it here, but Street Fighter III is one helluva game. I'd like to see a SFIII vs MOTW cross-over someday.

"Crap! I lost to Gill again! This is madness!"

"Madness? THIS... IS... CAPCOM!" XD Mr.Kraken 15:16, January 9, 2010 (UTC)

Re: Smoke
It's better but there's still some issues mainly with any of the material related to Japan or the Japanese names.


 * Japanese history and naming issues
 * First off while the beginnings of humanity did start around 200,000 years ago, many archeologists agree it did not start in Japan until 35,000 years ago at the earliest. If you're going by the creation myth version, humanity didn't really start appearing until around 700 BC with the first emperor. I'm not sure which date you were going for but just make sure your clan does not appear before the birth of the first emperor.


 * The name Asaki Komori is ok but keep in mind the name Asaki is generally used for girls and as a last name. I have seen it used for guys and as a first name but it's rare and usually used only as a pseudonym in those cases.


 * Use either hiragana or katakana but don't mix the two together to spell the same word. Mixing English letters with katakana/hiragana is ok but generally it's done in cases for something like Dragonball Z. Dragonball would be spelled out in katakana while the Z would be left in English. English words like Smoke would be spelled in katakana because it's a foreign word. It would also be spelled via the Japanese phonetic system rather than the English one as "Sumoku".


 * The name you created for your sacred treasure is grammatically incorrect and not necessarily in line with how the other sacred treasures are named. Haku is a noun/verb with too many possible meanings to pin down. Yoh could work but the only real possible translation for it could be "dark". The names of the sacred treasure are also related to the clan names as they name themselves (at least initially) after the name of the sacred treasure. So in your case the name of the sacred treasure should be Komori no Seigyoku, the sapphire gem of the Komori clan. I'm not quite sure the translation you were trying to go for.


 * Story issues
 * The idea of Smoke self-teaching himself Hakkyokuseiken from watching Geese is slightly absurd. Geese is a bit too selfish to even remotely share his techniques with anyone else much less allow himself to be filmed on public TV performing this particular martial art. He'd more likely destroy evidence of the tape and possibly the TV station that planned to air it. There's also the matter that the martial arts of Hakkyokuseiken is a martial arts that can only be learned by being taught. Nothing in the SNK universe suggests that anyone can pick it up by just watching.


 * I don't understand why your character would care about settling any score with Kyo when he finds out later that it was all a lie created by Ash. There's also no motivation for Voltaku and Chain to be Smoke's friends much less team mates. They have no common goal to bond them together as a team.


 * There is nothing to suggest that Those from the Past are a clan at all. It's probably better to think of them as an organization like NESTS.


 * The idea of one sacred treasure overpowering the original three sacred treasures is a bit ridiculous. The three sacred treasures are considered the most powerful and part of the original Orochi myth. The fact that it took three of them together to seal Orochi should say something. Having a single sacred treasure able to easily seal Orochi makes not only Orochi look like a wimp but also the original clans who sealed him up. Now if its power was something like the ability to seal Orochi's servants like the Hakkesshu or weaken Orochi's powers that might be a better route to go.

If you fix these above issues and keep in mind you're dealing with the EX alternate universe not the main canon, you'll have a more solid and believable story. Kyosei 04:41, January 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh forgot to mention that Orochi didn't really care about destroying humanity until about 1,800 years ago. So keep in mind that mentioning anything before that related to Orochi is kind of pointless. Kyosei 07:49, January 10, 2010 (UTC)

Re.: Chain
Ok, let's see. Let's take a look at those people who has part-Orochi blood, like Chain does. You see, aside of Leona, all of those who have part-Orochi blood have it because of some sort of pact. With that in mind, I don't think that Orochi can infect someone with his blood by force, I believe that the victim must be willing to receive it. It would be interesting to give him a reason as to why he wanted that kind of power in the first place. And of course, how he acquired it.
 * Iori Yagami and all of the Yasakani clan - the clan made a pact with Orochi, so they could be more powerful.
 * Leona Heidern - daughter of a full-blooded Hakkesshu and a normal woman.
 * Aoi Kusanagi - wanted to receive Orochi blood in a rebellious act against her clan, especially her brother.


 * Then, the focus would be put on his mother: why was she infected with the Orochi Blood? You can think of a scenario where Chain is enraged with someone (his master?) to the point where nothing matters if he can't kill that person. Then, one of the Four Heavenly Kings appears to him, noting that there's a strong latent power within him and promises to awaken it by staining his blood with the Orochi blood (in reality, the Hakkeshu is just giving Orochi another puppet). Thinking only about killing the person, Chain accepts, receiving all of his powers with the cost of the Riot of the Blood, his curse. This would have to have happened before 1997.


 * I think it's not a good idea, because it's not really a strong reason for a Hakkesshu to give the blood to her. If she appeared in front of one of them with that in mind, he would simply kill her for bugging him - remember that they still hate humans, and wouldn't grant 'favors' to anybody without gaining anything to please their master (a pregnant woman wouldn't exactly be a strong puppet). So, listen my idea: adopted by his master, Chain gave the best he could to be the strongest of his master disciples and he had a friendly rival - let's call him Saito. Chain and Saito did everything together, but it became apparent that Saito was better than Chain in every single way. At first, Chain didn't look he was upset with that, but in reality, he would keep his frustrations hidden. The kids grew up and were now teenagers; things were slowly getting different. But one thing didn't change: Saito was still better than Chain. It was at this time that Chain's rebellious personality started to flourish. He began to ignore Saito at times, but those moments would be very short. Until one day, both of them started to notice the master's daughter had grown up as well. She turned out to be a beautiful and charming girl, and inevitably, both of them fell in love with her. Chain and Saito knew that they were feeling the same thing towards the same girl and promised, for friendship's sake, that they would let time pass and forget about her. And so, life continued. But then, after training, Saito disappeared. Chain started to look for him, when, to his surprise, he found Saito kissing Asuka at the back of the dojo. All those frustrations, all the rage, all the small drops of hatred sealing within his heart were released when he witnessed his betrayal. He screamed in pain - and the earth shook. He ran as fast as he could. He ran into the woods, crying. But then, suddenly, someone appeared in front of him. "That was quite an impressive display of power, kid.", the man said with a grin on his face. "Who the hell are you? What do you want?!", Chain yelled, and the earth shook one more time. "Stop it, brat, would you like to make these trees fall on us?", the silver-haired man said. "What does it matter to you? Leave me alone!", Chain fell to his knees and started to cry one more time. The tall man looked down on Chain with a grim stare that seemed to penetrate his soul. "Indeed... you have such strong latent power and you don't even realize it. Hehe, you would make a very useful puppet.", he whispered to himself. "What did you say?", Chain stopped crying. "I said that I can make your pain go away.", he softly touched his head. "H-How?", Chain didn't know what to believe. "Doesn't really matter how. The point is that I can make you strong, kid.", he smiled. "I don't need another master, I already have on...", he was interrupted. "Not that. I can give you a power that is beyond your wildest dreams, kid. You will make people pay for what they did to you, you will make them bow to you, you will make them fear you, you, son, will be supreme.", while the tall man was talking, Chain's eyes were sparkling. "Supreme...", the tall man extended his hand. "So, what do you say?" There was something wrong about all of that. He knew it, but he chose to ignore it. All of his thoughts drifted away when the picture of Saito kissing Asuka flashed in his head. He will have his revenge. "I... I... I want that power!" The man grabbed Chain by the neck and forced him against a tree. He was laughing when he took a knife out of his pocket and showed it to Chain. He was about to scream, but the man cut his arm with one swift movement. Then, the man cut his own arm and let his blood drop into Chain's wound. "What the hell are you doing?", Chain said, trying to free his arm from the man's grip. After a few more drops, the silver-haired man let Chain go. "There.", he said. "What? That will give me power? You gotta be kidding me!", Chain was enraged even more, but suddenly, he saw something behind the man, something terrifying. He stood there, paralyzed when those eight monstrous snakes moved towards him. Suddenly, an intense pain. The eyes of the silver-haired man looked like snake eyes, when he said: "Rejoice. You are his slave and your shackles are your blood. He is pleased to have such a strong little puppet." The pain was getting more and more intense with each heart beat. He started to feel his blood boil inside his veins. He screamed in pain, and the earth shook - but this time, it was so violent that the trees around them started falling. "Rejoice... to your first Riot of the Blood." He was covered in trees, but easily broke free with a mighty roar. The silver-haired man disappeared, but his blood was still burning inside him. He couldn't control himself, he wanted to, but couldn't. So, he gave up trying. He gave in... and it felt good. In an uncontrollable fit of rage, he went straight back to the dojo. That day, he got his revenge. And the memories that would haunt him every single night. Saito died screaming like a girl, but he did try to protect her. She died crying. His friends died in agony. His master died in pain. He killed them all. But that doesn't really matter because now, now he is supreme.


 * Guess I overdid it a little, but there's my idea. Sorry if it was too cheesy, but what do you think about it? Mr.Kraken 00:52, January 11, 2010 (UTC)


 * I was only focusing on how he got his powers; his rivalry with Daimon, how he first started to use the chain, his time as a criminal, you already has that established. It would be even more interesting if for some reason, Chain grew up to hate Daimon and lusted for power so he could defeat/kill him. You seem to really want him to be infected towards his mother, is there a storyline reason for that? If there is, then I'll try thinking of something. She could be of the Yasakani clan, but then, Chain would have pyrokinetic powers, like Iori. Mr.Kraken 14:02, January 11, 2010 (UTC)


 * Not at all, you came up with the character in the first place. I'm just trying to help, and I'm glad that I did. ^^ Mr.Kraken 23:39, January 11, 2010 (UTC)


 * Ok, I'll try. =D I believe he adopted the name Chain after this incident, correct? If so, I'll give him a name (just to call him something, I don't want it to be official). I'll also give some information about his master's martial art style (again, I don't want it to be official, it's just to give some depth to it).


 * The pain was unforgiving. It was as if his inner organs were literally being twisted inside of him. He couldn't speak a single word - he was nothing more than an animal. Just like an animal, he was guided only by one basic instinct: 'Kill'. Meanwhile, all of them sensed the disturbance - the earth was shaking violently in their direction. They looked to their master, and he answered with silence. "Prepare yourselves.", Keiichiro, the most seasoned student of the dojo, said. "What do you think it is?", it was Keiichiro's sister, Kanae, who asked. "Doesn't matter. We'll do what we were trained to do... and where on earth is Ukiyo?", Keiichiro asked. No one could answer. The dojo was filled with silence as everyone's attention was on their master. "He is coming.", he said, surprising his students. Suddenly, the tremors stopped and one figure was standing at the door of the dojo. "Hah... hah... hah...", his eyes were shining a pale light. "U-Ukiyo... my God...!", Kanae was shocked to see her old friends' appearance. "I can't even recognize him... but if it is him who is responsible for this chaos, we must stop him! That's Tsuchi no Museido's mission!", Keiichiro yelled in confidence. "Take him outside! We cannot fight him here! Go, now!" The master of Tsuchi no Museido had ten students. Eight of them rushed against a former comrade who was deceived by lust and enraged by pain. When the master found him all alone, no one believed he could survive. Left alone for days, maybe weeks, he was dehydrated and malnourished. But, he survived and due to that, the master called him Ukiyo. Today, Ukiyo is nothing but a mindless demon. "Aaaarghhh!", a boy screamed in pain when a part of the ceiling fell on him due to a localized tremor. "Taka!", Keiichiro yelled. "You bastard!", he punched the ground, and a seismic wave flowed in Ukiyo's direction. "Gooooooaaaah!", as if responding to his scream, the earth shook powerfully with Ukiyo himself as the epicenter. Keiichiro's seismic wave disappeared and the dojo in its entirety started to crumble. When Keiichiro came to his senses, the man once known as Ukiyo was in front of him, with a face that looked more like a monster's than with that old friend's. "DIE!", Ukiyo yelled while grabbing Keiichiro's face and slamming it to the ground with power enough to break through the wooden floor. He did it again, and again, and again, until he was stopped. "That's enough.", Ukiyo fell when the ground beneath him started to crumble. "The Earth told me what you've done. She cries for you. And so do I. You are not the boy I found many years ago. You are not the child I raised as my own son. You are nothing but a disgrace to yourself, to your friends, to the Earth... to me.", the words of his master - the only person in the world he could call 'father' - penetrated his soul. He knew what he was doing, but there was no coming back. And those words only enraged him more. "K...k...ki...ll...YOU! Gooooooaaaah!!". "Come, beast! I must stop you!" A fateful duel in a fateful night. A long and violent earthquake struck Japan that day. The epicenter was exactly where a small dojo stood, that was destroyed because of it. All of the students and their master died beneath the debris. One of them, though, was nowhere to be found. Few knew that he was at the center of it all. Few knew that he was the one who took their lives. And fewer knew that a silver-haired man was very amused with the new puppet his master now has. "DADDY!", it was the voice of Asuka, who just witnessed her father's death. "No, Asuka! Run! Get out of here!", and that was his voice. He looked at them. His eyes were ghostly pale, like death itself. "WHY, UKIYO? WHY ARE YOU DOING THIS?! WHY?!", she refused to believe that the friend she had since she was born was the monster standing in front of her. "A...suka...", he was able to whisper. "Please, Asuka! Get out of here, now! ...Oh, God.", in a blink of an eye, Saito was facing Ukiyo - facing death. "Asuka... please... run... save yours - Aaaaaaaah! AAAAAAAAAH!", Saito screamed. He was taken down by Ukiyo, who proceeded to literally beat him to death. When he was finished, there was nothing left to let people recognize him as the man who once was Saito. And she saw it all. She tried, indeed, she did. But she couldn't run. She just cried. "A...suka.", he turned to her. So, she screamed.


 * Let me explain a few things, Ukiyo means "life", and the master gave him this name because he survived all adversity. Tsuchi no Museido is the name I came up for the style, it was intended to mean "Way of the Silent Earth", because I envisioned it to be a style created to control the earth, in order to calm earthquakes. I don't know if the name is correct, Kiyosei can help you with that, if you're interested. A master in the art has affinity with the Earth itself, known to us as Gaia. Don't know if you'll like it, but there it is. ^^ Mr.Kraken 00:48, January 15, 2010 (UTC)


 * That was pretty cool! Will your fic be in the Maximum Impact continuity? Mr.Kraken 16:31, January 16, 2010 (UTC)

Re: Leave me alone
Isn't that what I've been doing lately? Besides the bit with Terry and all of them. As for their "full names"; Terry, Andy, etc. That is the only names SNK refers to them as. There is no William, Lillian or any other versions of their names. Think of it as how even though Jim is short for James that's not the person's name. They're known as Jim even on their birth certificate. That's kind of the case how it is for everyone else you've given "full names" to. I wouldn't want you giving other fans the wrong impression that SNK calls them by any other name than the ones they are listed as. Kyosei 21:54, January 19, 2010 (UTC)

Re.: Smoke dialogue
Sorry for taking too long. I liked it, it was pretty cool. You could start developing a story now, don't you think so? - Mr.Kraken 12:22, January 20, 2010 (UTC)

Kyosei
I've asked him, now I'm gonna ask you. What's going on between you two? Answer me from your point of view, please. Mr.Kraken 22:22, January 20, 2010 (UTC)

Internet. Serious business.
If this goes on, one of you will eventually get sick of being in the same wiki as the other and leave. I don't want that, so I'm gonna be quite honest right now with both of you.


 * Kyosei, I know that having ThunderBeam asking you your opinion time and time again about his fiction characters can be a nuisance, but you have to understand that he only wants to have fun. There's no actual need to be completely critic about the characters' imperfections because I do believe he doesn't want anything serious with them. Also, if he wanted your opinion so bad to begin with, it would be at least because he respects you and/or looks up to you, as I do. You could have some patience with that in mind.


 * Thunder, there are some things that you must understand. First of all, people have their lives, their problems, their time and answering you about your characters is simply a kind favor, not a obligation. It can be a bother, and it bothered Kyosei to the point of being somewhat rude with you (but, he also put his time into replying to you, something to be appreciated). Another thing is, you must accept criticism. You have to understand that your characters are not perfect. I know you just want to enjoy writing about them, and that would be the sole reason that you shouldn't have to be so protective to them. They do have flaws, and you must understand that. Kyosei simply showed you those flaws. You must accept the fact that they are there, and work on them if you want a brighter future for your characters in fandom. Another thing, I won't say it trying to offend you and hope you don't take it that way, but saying things like Don't get in my way or Go to hell!!! to someone across the Internet is childish. Think about it for a moment; will it pay off to say those things to someone you don't even know?

I'd like if you two could get along and work together, after all, we have the same goal, right? It's kinda stupid to be playing the mediator across the internet, and I'm pretty sure Sake neko is laughing at us, so let's stop it, ok? =D Mr.Kraken 03:36, January 21, 2010 (UTC)

Answers
I'm really glad you're gonna try and get along with him and I know he isn't perfect, no one is. I'd really like to keep this in the past, cause having you two working together for the wiki and not against each other would be really really cool. Now, here are your answers:

1. No, because I believe in you. Now, if it continues it will be something extremely juvenile, and I'll have to take action.

2. Yes, but in time. The only one capable of evaluating your possibilities is Kyosei, because I've just recently returned. If you keep a regular and accurate job, yes, you can become and admin.

3. That was just a failed joke. x.x

4. She's a girl, but be careful, her brother can be watching. XD Mr.Kraken 19:41, January 21, 2010 (UTC)

Re.: Tired
Then, I got something for ya: Link 1 and Link 2. It's a fan made video of a fight between Kyo and Terry. If you can ignore the dialogues in portuguese, the silly and wrong storyline, and specially having a "Kyo-Naruto" and a "Full Metal Alchemist-Terry" you're in for a treat. It was very fun, I liked it a lot and hope they can make even more (and truer to the games) videos in the future. Mr.Kraken 04:51, January 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * Sorry, I haven't any. Mr.Kraken 01:49, January 24, 2010 (UTC)

Re: Returned
Welcome back ^^ Kyosei 23:34, February 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm not ignoring you, so don't get so offended ;p. Not much has been happening so I didn't really feel like there was much to say was all. Kyosei 21:45, February 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * It's a face emoticon. It doesn't really mean anything in particular. It's just something I do to lighten the mood. Kyosei 20:10, February 9, 2010 (UTC)

Re: Orochi Shadows
While I can't rule out the possibly of that happening, I cannot say either way whether or not that will be the case. Basically this is a "wait and see what will happen" situation as we won't know for sure until KOF XIII comes out. Personally, I don't think it will happen and at best they will make flashback cameo appearances. It would be funny to see Rugal come back though given his penchant for repeatedly "resurrecting" himself. Kyosei 22:53, May 28, 2010 (UTC)

Re:Chris cameo
So? Shermie makes a cameo on the France stage. What's your point? I'm still sticking to my original view on background cameos and that they don't really count as canon. As the word implies, cameos are just a little appearance which usually serve as a kind of fan service. The only real important cameos to be concerned about IMO are the ending cameos as those can be construed as canon. If they're not shown being alive during a cutscene or during a team's ending then as far as I'm concerned they're still quite dead. Kyosei 22:02, May 30, 2010 (UTC)

New Faces Team
I thought we've already been over this. They haven't called the New Faces team since '97. Ever other game since then they've either been called the Orochi team or '98 team. This is about accuracy not the particular names you want to call them by. Kyosei 17:49, May 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * I specifically remember having this conversation with you here and here albeit before you had registered an actual user name. It's hard to imagine this IP address being other than you since you talk to me about your Anti-Hero team with the same IP(s). Kyosei 18:01, May 31, 2010 (UTC)

Adding Redundant Sprites
If you wish to add sprites, particularly when they are mere color edits, and sprites already exist, take the time to properly synchronize them with the other relevant sprites. What do I mean by synchronize? Sprites of the same construction should sync in the following ways


 * Size: The dimensions of the gif should match.
 * Placement: The objects should have the same relative placement in the frame, so that the pixels overlap one another. For instance, I always put a consistent boarder of empty pixels around every sprite to make placement easier.
 * Order: Animations should begin on the same frame of motion.
 * Timing: Animations should have the same timing per frame.

If you are not going to bother making sprites properly sync, please do not upload them. They only make the sprites sections look like a mess.

Also, please do not upload Japanese Card Fighters Clash cards when English versions exist. Cheers. D3volv3r 19:41, June 1, 2010 (UTC)

Re:Change
It's good to see you are willing to take constructive criticism as just that, constructive and not as a personal attack. As with all art, the only way you're going to improve is by not treating everything you do as "sacred" and "untouchable". Keep at it. Kyosei 20:37, June 2, 2010 (UTC)

Re: Advice
First off I just want to say the changes made so far are a big improvement from how it used to be. Smoke feels more like a genuine character instead of a author avatar. Some little things first though.

Corrections on the Japanese names:
 * Smoke should be spelled with katakana as: スモーク
 * The family treasure should be spelled in hiragana/kanji as: こもり の 蒼玉


 * Note on the "Komori" family name. This could possibly be spelled as: コモリ depending on the meaning you want to convey for the family name. For Japanese, using hiragana and katakana imply different meanings. Katakana is usually for either foreign words or names that should be taken in the context that the person in question was born/lives in a foreign country even though the name is Japanese. Such is the case for Yuri and Ryo.

As for how to make it more believable, I think you should possibly tone down the transformations a little. I think one is fine but anymore than that starts to border on boss territory a la Rugal in a sense. There's also the matter that I don't think many characters in the King of Fighter series get more than one "transformation". Usually they stick to just one at most (Kula, all the Hakkesshu, etc.).

Some of the powers should be removed as well. Your character almost feels like a one-man army with the power of the all three of the original Sacred Treasures combined (i.e. the ability to seal Orochi and deactivate the riot of blood). He shouldn't be more powerful than any of the original three sacred treasures as these are considered the most powerful in the KOF canon. I think the passive abilities that allow him to sense the presence of certain people is fine. Healing, teleporting, telepathy and flight are a bit on the iffy side for me. The use of telepathy is considered rare in the KOF universe and only those proficient using Psycho powers, Chizuru and supernatural beings are shown able to use it. Given the rarity of it and the fact your character as only recently awakened to his powers, it seems a little far-fetched for him to have telepathy. Healing is once again limited to only supernatural beings and Athena. Teleporting is limited to those who specialize in exotic martial arts close to something like ninjutsu (Hizoku characters, Nagase), those who use Psycho powers or supernatural beings. Translocation is fine though as it is somewhat of a "normal" power in the KOF universe. Flight is limited to supernatural beings or those who use air based abilities/powers.

TLDR version. Basic rule of thumb: don't give your character abilities more powerful than the three sacred treasures combined. Having powers is cool but less is more in this case if you want a believable character.

Character's backstory is fine for the most part. There's some little things I'm confused about though such as when you mention the personality change and eye pain. As a reader, I don't know how his personality was before he got his powers only after. Mentioning it seems weird as you don't explain how his personality changed. I don't see why the eye pain should be mentioned unless it will play as something important later down the line like as the price for awakening too early he'll lose his eyesight or something like that.

There's also the matter that he gained his powers from something mundane as smoking. Generally when we read about why a character has certain powers in the KOF universe is because they either a) stole it/gained it (Rugal, Ash, etc.), b) experiment/clone, c) trained to attain them or d) just born with it. I think in this case it's fine if his powers awakened as a reaction due to the events that happened in either '97 or any time during the Ash saga. Given that the reader already knows said character is born with these powers you don't have to create an elaborate way in how he came to awaken to these powers. Simply stating it's a reaction to Orochi's presence or powers is fine.

Hmm that's about it for now. I'll let you mull over it and think of ideas/changes. Kyosei 23:07, June 19, 2010 (UTC)

Re:Kim Team
Why? We don't name Kyo and Iori's teams as Kyo's King of Fighters team and Iori's King of Fighters team do we? Besides, the team names are just simply what SNK calls them. Nothing more, nothing less. Kyosei 03:02, June 22, 2010 (UTC)